|
|
| TOOGAM |
| Posted: Apr 1 2003, 04:57 AM |
 |
|
Unregistered
|
This is a help request.
I am interested in using a lossless audio codec in VirtualDub. It doesn't much matter to me which one (I've looked at La 0.3c, Monkey's Audio, flac, and optimFrog).
What does VirtualDub expect from its codecs? La 0.3c, for example, looks like it is a command-line compressor/decompressor, but it doesn't show up in VirtualDub's list of audio codecs. It does, however, show up when I search for audio and codec. Without being able to find any documentation on what VirtualDub is looking for, I can't even refine my search engines.
I'm wondering if I need to be looking for something called DirectShow Filters. Is that right? Will the drivers at MediaXW.Sourceforge.net work to provide flac/monkey audio support in VirtualDub, as well as Media Player 6.4/mplayer2.exe so that the VirtualDub-made AVI's can be played?
(The reason I don't "just try it" is because it refuses to install: "Could not open key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Classes\Ogg File (*.ogg)[]*.ogg;*.ogm\ShellEx\{00021500-0000-0000-C-0000-000000000046). Verify that you have sufficient access to that key, or contact your support personnel." (with a box instead of the square brackets). Version 0.0.5 fails with a more cryptic error message (an error number). Version 0.0.10 snapshot release installed, I think, but I didn't see the drivers anywhere. I believe I did have MediaXW install once before on a previous Windows installation. I'm considering re-installing my operating system, Win98SE, to try to get MediaXW working. Before taking this drastic step, or trying some more to find out how to get MediaXW working (like asking on their support forum, if I find one, how to install the product), I'm asking here if MediaXW is even what I need?
From my reading, Ogg Vorbis's DirectShow filter puts AVI's inside *.ogg's, and so that is NOT likely what I'm wanting, right? Is this why "Vorbis" is labeled "( not available in Vdub/AVI yet )" in the pinned message about allowed codecs ? |
|
| phaeron |
| Posted: Apr 1 2003, 06:42 AM |
|
|
Virtualdub Developer
Group: Administrator
Posts: 7773
Member No.: 61
Joined: 30-July 02
|
For VirtualDub to use a codec, it must be a driver that hooks up to the Windows Audio Compression Manager (ACM) -- not a DirectShow filter.
No lossless codecs can be used in AVI, because lossless compression must be VBR.
|
|
| TOOGAM |
| Posted: Apr 1 2003, 11:01 AM |
|
|
Unregistered
|
Okay, so it's NOT worth re-installing my Operating System to test something because the results I'm after are impossible due to file format limitations.
Thanks for the quick, and quality, response. |
|
| ChristianHJW |
| Posted: Apr 1 2003, 03:34 PM |
|
|
Advanced Member
Group: Moderators
Posts: 1768
Member No.: 2
Joined: 7-July 02
|
| QUOTE | | This is a help request. I am interested in using a lossless audio codec in VirtualDub. It doesn't much matter to me which one (I've looked at La 0.3c, Monkey's Audio, flac, and optimFrog). |
You're not alone 
| QUOTE | | I'm wondering if I need to be looking for something called DirectShow Filters. Is that right? Will the drivers at MediaXW.Sourceforge.net work to provide flac/monkey audio support in VirtualDub, as well as Media Player 6.4/mplayer2.exe so that the VirtualDub-made AVI's can be played? |
As Avery was pointing out already, Vdub needs an ACM codec and lossless codecs need to be VBR by default, so this is not possible.
We plan to have FLAC ( and only that ) in matroskadub ( VirtualdubMod ) by adding libflac to it, so that we will be able to capture into the matroska and maybe even OGM container using FLAC for audio.
| QUOTE | | From my reading, Ogg Vorbis's DirectShow filter puts AVI's inside *.ogg's, and so that is NOT likely what I'm wanting, right? Is this why "Vorbis" is labeled "( not available in Vdub/AVI yet )" in the pinned message about allowed codecs ? |
This is not fully correct only Nando's first attempts to put Vorbis into AVI were doing this together with the Ogg container, Tobias' DShow filters will strip the video stream from the AVI and put it into Ogg in a way he was defining ... Cyrius and Mosu could tell you more how exactly he did that.
In any case, Vorbis will never be available in AVI, at least not in a clean way, and certainly not In Vdub and VdubMod .....
Christian
--------------------
Visit the unofficial Virtualdub support forum on http://forums.virtualdub.org - help to reduce the big number of emails Avery Lee is getting every day !!
Support matroska as container and Gstreamer as the only truely open, x-platform multimedia platform .... |
|
| robUx4 |
 Posted: Apr 1 2003, 03:41 PM |
|
|
Unregistered
|
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Apr 1 2003, 05:34 PM) | | As Avery was pointing out already, Vdub needs an ACM codec and lossless codecs need to be VBR by default, so this is not possible. |
Well, it is possible to make an ACM handling a VBR-only format. As long as you reserve enough space for the codec. Only the average bitrate that you will give before the encoding (that's the pb with simple ACM apps) will not be exact... But you can still adjust that bitrate after encoding. Your AVI file will be valid. And I'm not sure there will be more problems than with VBR MP3  |
|
| Suiryc |
| Posted: Apr 1 2003, 04:06 PM |
|
|
Developer of VirtualdubMod
Group: VirtualdubMod Team
Posts: 222
Member No.: 468
Joined: 10-October 02
|
Hi
Well Vorbis audio in AVI is really a bad idea 
First Ogg Vorbis is VBR (and you all know AVI wasn't really meant to contain VBR audio, even if a simple trick works currently - you know you can put MP3 VBR in AVI and that it will be played correctly when being read a certain way ...), and then the stream is splitted in Packets that doesn't contain the same amount of samples (which is mandatory for the trick to work). Those Packets are then embedded in Pages (generally a Page==4kB).
How did Nando put Vorbis in AVI back then ? Well he cheated a bit.
An Ogg Vorbis stream needs 3 Packets (the first ones in the stream) to initialize the decoder (first one contains general information on the audio, second one contains comments - this one could be skipped actually, but if you don't give one then you won't be able to init the decoder - and the third one hold all the necessary information to decode properly the data - Huffman trees and the like IIRC). Nando just put those mandatory data after the audio header (WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE in this case, with a GUID since there is no wFormatTag for Vorbis).
Then he cut the input Ogg file on Page boundary and write a Page per Chunk in the AVI file.
--------------------
OGM tools, VirtualDubMod [SourceForge : Tracker/DL] (FAQ)
Don't forget the Needed DLLs for VirtualDubMod. Post bugs/requests in our Tracker.
We give 100% of your donations to the Open Source community |
|
| TOOGAM |
| Posted: Apr 5 2003, 09:51 PM |
|
|
Unregistered
|
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Apr 1 2003, 09:34 AM) | | QUOTE | | This is a help request. I am interested in using a lossless audio codec in VirtualDub. It doesn't much matter to me which one (I've looked at La 0.3c, Monkey's Audio, flac, and optimFrog). |
You're not alone
| QUOTE | | I'm wondering if I need to be looking for something called DirectShow Filters. Is that right? Will the drivers at MediaXW.Sourceforge.net work to provide flac/monkey audio support in VirtualDub, as well as Media Player 6.4/mplayer2.exe so that the VirtualDub-made AVI's can be played? |
As Avery was pointing out already, Vdub needs an ACM codec and lossless codecs need to be VBR by default, so this is not possible.
We plan to have FLAC ( and only that ) in matroskadub ( VirtualdubMod ) by adding libflac to it, so that we will be able to capture into the matroska and maybe even OGM container using FLAC for audio.
| QUOTE | | From my reading, Ogg Vorbis's DirectShow filter puts AVI's inside *.ogg's, and so that is NOT likely what I'm wanting, right? Is this why "Vorbis" is labeled "( not available in Vdub/AVI yet )" in the pinned message about allowed codecs ? |
This is not fully correct only Nando's first attempts to put Vorbis into AVI were doing this together with the Ogg container, Tobias' DShow filters will strip the video stream from the AVI and put it into Ogg in a way he was defining ... Cyrius and Mosu could tell you more how exactly he did that.
In any case, Vorbis will never be available in AVI, at least not in a clean way, and certainly not In Vdub and VdubMod .....
Christian |
| QUOTE | | We plan to have FLAC ( and only that ) in matroskadub ( VirtualdubMod ) by adding libflac to it, so that we will be able to capture into the matroska and maybe even OGM container using FLAC for audio. |
Okay, so should I be looking at matroska.sf.net or virtualdubmod.sf.net for news on this? Is matroskadub just slang for virtualdubmod since it supports matroska, or is matroskadub a seperate and already-existing version of virtualdub that supports matroska? Because google doesn't find much at all on matroskadub (two forum posts).
| QUOTE | | As Avery was pointing out already, Vdub needs an ACM codec and lossless codecs need to be VBR by default, so this is not possible. |
So am I to understand that VBR isn't a conflict with AVI's specifically, but ACM more generically?
Ah, you probably shouldn't even answer that. Do you have a newbie FAQ on various file formats? So far my searches for quality comparisons of AVI, Quicktime, Real, Mpeg, and the new Microsoft formats *.WM? and *.A* have turned up approximately a 100% noise to signal ratio. |
|
|
