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| Cyberman |
| Posted: Jul 5 2004, 01:20 PM |
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Subtitling destroys the movie.
As for dubbing, unlike fan dubs, they probably can use the original tapes.
Theyīre completely recreating the audio part, AFAIK. All the sounds you hear are artificially made(i.e. recorded separately and added).
Besides, itīs possible to blank out unwanted noise - sound editing is even older than video editing, think about whatīs possible nowadays.
Believe me if I tell you that you wonīt actually notice the difference. Unless you look closely at the mouth, of course.
The main difference is that, as I said before, silence actually IS silent, as the dubbing is done in a studio, where the is no sound that isnīt wanted.
As for "positive effect" - I already wrote what I meant.
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Matroska/MKV ? |
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| stephanV |
| Posted: Jul 5 2004, 01:31 PM |
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Spam killer ;)
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I think this also a matter of what you are used to. Im used to subtitles and must say i really dislike dubbed movies, it just doesnt sound right somehow. The only dubbed movies that are done alright IMO are from Walt Disney (cartoon dubbing is a bit easier i guess)
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useful links:
VirtualDub, Input plugins and filters, AviSynth, AVI-Mux GUI, AC3ACM by fcchandler, VirtualDub FAQ |
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| Cyberman |
| Posted: Jul 5 2004, 01:45 PM |
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I donīt see the difference - aside from the actors voice, thereīs no change.
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| i4004 |
| Posted: Jul 5 2004, 07:14 PM |
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| QUOTE | | Unless you look closely at the mouth, of course. |
and where do you look when person is speaking?
at his legs?
i thought normal thing was to look at the faces...
| QUOTE | | The main difference is that, as I said before, silence actually IS silent, |
is that an argument or what?
silence is silent...
and sielnce is exactly what in original soundtrack?
it is non-silent silence?
if you're shooting move in a bar,there ar epeople there...it's not silent...
there is no 'positive effect' to dubbing...
i watched big lebovsky dubbed;ohh man...i really missed jeff's voice,his english words,his accent .his laughter,and..everything else....
it's like doing a half-job....
that wasn't him.....that's not jeff bridges...
it was a german vampire who ate his soul... 
in a sense,actor's voice is what actor is,actually....
| QUOTE | | (cartoon dubbing is a bit easier i guess) |
well said,as it's impossible to sync a toon perfectly in english or any lang. so it doesn't matter....
from a toon you always expect async,and you always get it... 
animators have better things to do than to do 25fps face-closeup-lip-movement-copies-of-actual-real-face...
heh
cyberman,i think you would like a subtitled version better ,if you had a choice...but you don't...
90% of your stuff is dubbed,and i can watch both....i prefer subs,as they leave soundtrack untouched...
THAT is a priority,in my mind....to leave film as is....video and audio.....
subbed version has BOTH original sound and translation,while at your version...huh...do i need to mention that sat.1 did a monty pythton dub?
ohhh my lord! 
in a same manner,some phrases you cannot translate...
also,you would be surprised how much faster you're learning the lang. if you have subs+original lang.
so many germans sound(to me) like they never heard a word of spoken english...and they didn't... 
french too...they also dub...
there,nationalism on basis of dubbism versus subtitlism
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| Cyberman |
| Posted: Jul 5 2004, 08:07 PM |
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| QUOTE | and where do you look when person is speaking?
at his legs? |
LOL, no of course not. But I said "CLOSELY". The point is, unless youīre concentrating on the mouth, you donīt know itīs dubbed.
IF made good, of course. Especially when the original is english, then most words have similar "moves"(?) as theyīre often similar.
| QUOTE | is that an argument or what?
silence is silent...
and sielnce is exactly what in original soundtrack?
it is non-silent silence? |
It depends. If the movie plays in the open air, thereīs a steady hissing - very low, of course, but noticeable.
I guess itīs from some soft breeze of air, moving past the microphone.
| QUOTE | i watched big lebovsky dubbed;ohh man...i really missed jeff's voice,his english words,his accent .his laughter,and..everything else....
it's like doing a half-job....
that wasn't him.....that's not jeff bridges... |
On THAT I can agree. As I said, itīs always a question of quality...
| QUOTE | | in a sense,actor's voice is what actor is,actually.... |
Sadly, thatīs true. But no matter how good the voice is, itīs of no use if I donīt understand it.
| QUOTE | | cyberman,i think you would like a subtitled version better ,if you had a choice...but you don't... |
Well, Iīve got access to the internet, right? Iīve downloaded subbed stuff with original voices. "Transformers: Beast Wars II" to be precise. While itīs nice to have the original (japanese) voices, but Iīd have prefered a dub, as I didnīt understand a single word and constantly missed some action because I had to read the text.
| QUOTE | subbed version has BOTH original sound and translation,while at your version...huh...do i need to mention that sat.1 did a monty pythton dub?
ohhh my lord! |
Well, the sound remains essentially the same.
| QUOTE | | in a same manner,some phrases you cannot translate... |
So? If you canīt understand the original language, thatīs of no importance anyway -unless itīs easier to translate to text than to voice?
| QUOTE | | also,you would be surprised how much faster you're learning the lang. if you have subs+original lang. |
No doubt, but I think itīs more important one learns the native language. I have the strong feeling that many people here canīt even remotely speak german...
(At least considering what some of them "leave" on the internet...)
| QUOTE | so many germans sound(to me) like they never heard a word of spoken english...and they didn't...
french too...they also dub... |
Quite frankly, I donīt think thatīs because they never HEARD the other language, but rather missing training.
Knowing how to pronounce is one thing, the actualy doing another. In theory, the pronounciation of klingon is easy(essentially sounds you have in german and english), but youīll break your tongue once you tried to spell "ghargh" right. (Actually, youīd break you throat, as the tongue isnīt used in that word.)
| QUOTE | there,nationalism on basis of dubbism versus subtitlism
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LOL. Why not. Thereīve been much worse reasons.
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| Cyberman |
| Posted: Jul 5 2004, 08:17 PM |
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(Sorry for the double-post, but somehow the editing doesnīt work? Always gives me an incomplete page, no buttons, lower haf(after text-field) missing.
[QUOTE ]
in a sense,actor's voice is what actor is,actually.... [/QUOTE]
Sadly, thatīs true. But no matter how good the voice is, itīs of no use if I donīt understand it.
If I donīt know the language, donīt know how to actually pronounce it, I hardly can apreciate the way the actor speaks.
Like in DS9(Star Trek), when (Jadzia) Dax spoke some klingon words - someone not knowing the language might think "well, nice.", but those knowing probably lay wincing on the floor...
(The pronounciation was horrible - there is no "s" sound in Klingon, but she continued to pronounce it...)
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| arachnotron |
| Posted: Jul 5 2004, 09:44 PM |
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Unregistered
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The nice thing about dubbing is you can correct bad acting in post.
( And do the reverse: some great actors become rank amateurs after dubbing in German.) |
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| alexnoe |
| Posted: Aug 3 2004, 01:01 PM |
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Well, the S is not the worst thing.
All those actors continue to mispronounce H and gh! They are too lazy to practice that damn [x] - sound....'gagh' is pronounced [gax], not [gag] ... |
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| Cyberman |
| Posted: Aug 3 2004, 01:13 PM |
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tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'a'?
I donīt think the actors are lazy, itīs rather that no one ever told them how to pronounce it.
The reason I listed "S" is because I thought about how she repeatedly pronounces "qeylIS" the way itīs written, ignoring the pronounciation of Klingon - even stressing that "s" sound.
"qagh" is one of the words that got refitted and refitted and refitted - because itīs apparently too hard to pronounce "ghargh" correct.
Sure, I almost choke every time I try to - but they WANTED an alien language, right? So why not give the actors a chance to train the language?
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| ChristianHJW |
| Posted: Aug 3 2004, 01:15 PM |
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i4004,
i really loved to have the time you can invest in such discussion .....
@ Fred Thompson :
what are you complaining about ? I was just banned for 30 days because of this post : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&t...&threadid=80245
More specifically, Koepi insulted me for advertising 'vapourware' for the Xth time with this thread. Of course, robux4 proved him wrong the very same evening by posting the existing binaries, so i was asking for an aplogogy.
Here the excerpts :
| QUOTE | Koepi : Is this really a poll about vaporware chris?
I thought you knew better in the meantime. |
robux4 then replied ....
| QUOTE | robux4 : Last time I heard about vapourware it was about Matroska that was a silly idea that would never work...
GStreamer on Windows definitely works from the current CVS (and is now compatible with the Linux build). I created a Matroska file with it, no coding required. (OK the file is not playing fine because I don't know the right command to use)
I will release the binaries shortly so that everyone can give it a try.
(BTW, Windows is officially supported by the GStreamer ppl) |
..... and posted the link to the binaries shortly after that. I was suspended at this time already, for having posted this thread, but my account was reactivated shortly after that ( as an apology ? ). So i wrote :
| QUOTE | | ChristianHJW : No its not. You owe me an apology Koepi, i leave it to you when you want to give it to me, and to the whole matroska team. Even powerful supermods of extremely influential webforums should be able to apologize if they made a mistake, and in public. Show us you have the nuts to do that. |
Result : Suspended for 30 days .....
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Visit the unofficial Virtualdub support forum on http://forums.virtualdub.org - help to reduce the big number of emails Avery Lee is getting every day !!
Support matroska as container and Gstreamer as the only truely open, x-platform multimedia platform .... |
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| stephanV |
| Posted: Aug 3 2004, 01:21 PM |
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Spam killer ;)
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lol
we're all one big happy family here
Ivo banned, Fred suspended (still?), Alex suspended (right?), Christian suspended and me too if I don't stop defending AVI from a bunch of MP4-fetisjist (it's one strike and I'm out right now )
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useful links:
VirtualDub, Input plugins and filters, AviSynth, AVI-Mux GUI, AC3ACM by fcchandler, VirtualDub FAQ |
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| alexnoe |
| Posted: Aug 3 2004, 01:35 PM |
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Unregistered
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Yes, Koepi has suspended me for one violation of rule #11.
I think i'll have to get a bit more aggressive in fighting OGM
He has to be made have so much like a p'tagh that Doom9 can't afford keeping him any longer, and it will finally work, even if he reads that.
There are people whose IQ is lower than the IQ of one m^2 of a road...and such people should not be moderator |
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