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| Kasuha |
| Posted: Jan 5 2010, 07:06 PM |
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I'm sure it's not that hard and it will make the feature significantly less dangerous:
The way how it is implemented now has already caused me to lose work several times, to the extent that I stopped using it even if it means my computer will stay on idle several hours.
I also definitely don't understand - if you insist that this option must be hidden - why the Autostart option which logically falls under the same category and is way less destructive is placed visible. |
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| phaeron |
| Posted: Jan 6 2010, 03:50 AM |
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I have no idea what option you are talking about.
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| fredgiblet |
| Posted: Jan 6 2010, 07:15 AM |
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I believe that he wants you to take the Options menu in Job Control and make it a drop-down menu on the front instead of on the bar. |
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| Kasuha |
| Posted: Jan 6 2010, 08:28 AM |
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| QUOTE (phaeron @ Jan 6 2010, 03:50 AM) | | I have no idea what option you are talking about. |
The one in the red ellipse on my image which is not there in real VirtualDub.
The point is, if I choose Shutdown for one processing, the choice is saved and is invisible. It's very easy to forget how did I set up this option last time and when I power on my PC, working on videos is usually not the first thing I'm going to do. If I later start some new processing on background it shuts down my computer when I don't want it just because I forgot that I must reset this invisible option manually. And the minute wait time does not help because I don't spend 100% time at my computer.
Really... either you are not using this option at all or you are that perfect kind of person that never forgets anything. Well ... I'm not perfect. And I lost my work multiple times due to that. Not the video editing work, but that thing I was doing in the foreground while VD was processing. |
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| mayhem |
| Posted: Jan 6 2010, 04:40 PM |
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Hmm. I don't use the whole shutdown when finished option in VD or any other
software generally, but, I can see his point actually, potentially destructive options
should be plainly visible in principle, and set to off by default, obviously.
I vaguely recall Phaeron commenting on windows or some VS controls
or something like that not always following basic rules to make
destructive options obvious, not the default, and not easy to
mistakenly click on,etc at one point, can't remember the context
of it though.
Its also arguable as to whether a shutdown is "destructive"
or not, I suppose it could be if you were working on something
else in another window though, as obviously the video work
would be complete before said shutdown, but whatever.
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| phaeron |
| Posted: Jan 7 2010, 04:33 AM |
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Sorry, but all I could see in your original image was an option to Do Nothing.
First, the "Shutdown when Finished" option is already disabled by default.
Second, I want to confirm something. Whenever this option is checked and VirtualDub is preparing to shut down the machine, it should be displaying a dialog with a 10-30sec. timeout that gives you a chance to abort the shutdown. Did this appear? If it didn't, that's a bad bug that I need to fix. On some versions of Windows, particularly server versions, the entry in the shutdown log should specify that the Shutdown When Finished option was the shutdown reason.
There is a difference between a setting that's accidentally hit and one that isn't. This one being in a menu, I'd say it's pretty hard to hit accidentally. That having been said, it seems reasonable and not top hard to have a combo box there that resets between sessions, and being a combo box it'd be pretty hard to change accidentally. Unfortunately, this isn't a feature that'd be appropriate to put into the stable tree, so it'd have to wait for the next major version. |
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| Kasuha |
| Posted: Jan 7 2010, 07:01 AM |
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Yes, it is set to Do Nothing by default. But once I change it, regardless if that setting is used and PC shut down or not, it stays at the new setting - so it tries to shut down the computer every time it finishes processing until I manually set it to Do Nothing again. BUT IT IS HIDDEN!!!
My style of work is, I prepare a batch of say 200 tasks and it runs about a day and half. It's quite useful to have the Shutdown option set for it. When I return to the computer it's off and that's ok - but when I usually come to a computer that is off, I just start it and start doing whatever I wanted to do on the computer which is usually NOT video editing.
When I return to the video editing, there is nothing that reminds me that I set this option to Shutdown two days ago. PC was off and VirtualDub closed. So I go back to refining the result (it's about deshaking), I refine the first pass manually where needed for one clip, then renew one or two tasks in the task list (which runs a few minutes) start the task and start doing something else, eventually leave the computer for a few minutes - and when I return to my computer it's OFF.
It's ANNOYING. It destroys my work because whatever I had open on my computer when I left it for a minute is away.
Yes, the shutdown confirmation dialog does appear and it is possible to abort the shutdown from it. And if I am sitting at the computer at that time, I abort it and reset the option right away. The matter is, the dialog does not wait for me to return to the computer if I left it just for a moment. Another important thing is, the dialog also needs to get the focus because if it's hidden behind whatever application is on top, it doesn't help too. I remember once VirtualDub shut down my computer while I was playing some game and really no confirmation jumped up that time - but that only happened once.
There are several ways how to make it better. One is to make it visible and that's what I'm asking for here. Another is to reset it to Do Nothing every time VirtualDub starts. Another option is to confirm this setting when starting the job. Yet another option is to set the confirmation dialog timeout to 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds. I don't care which one you choose but please do something about it. |
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| stephanV |
| Posted: Jan 7 2010, 08:37 AM |
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Although I agree that the option could use some improvement, leaving your PC without saving your work is bad practice IMO. There are other reasons why it can shutdown.
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useful links:
VirtualDub, Input plugins and filters, AviSynth, AVI-Mux GUI, AC3ACM by fcchandler, VirtualDub FAQ |
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| phaeron |
| Posted: Jan 8 2010, 03:39 AM |
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You've already sufficiently expressed your frustration.
I already said I thought this feature request was reasonable. If you are having this much trouble with the feature, then simply don't use it.
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| Kasuha |
| Posted: Sep 7 2010, 01:48 PM |
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Okay, you just released a stable version and the option is still hidden so I'd like to ask what kind of release do I need to wait for before I'll finally be able to use that option safely.
It really IS frustrating because I only want to use that option for what is it designed for - but I want it to shut down my computer when I intend to, not when I just have forgotten that it's not using the default setting anymore. |
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| fredgiblet |
| Posted: Sep 7 2010, 04:31 PM |
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He released a minor bugfix version. Bugfix versions don't include new features. Apparently he's been busy and hasn't had time for significant development, but now he's getting less busy so he may be working on new features more soon. |
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| Kasuha |
| Posted: Sep 7 2010, 09:08 PM |
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I consider this a bug, too. Bug is in my opinion when a program does things it is not intended to be doing. And I believe VD is not intended to shut down your computer when you don't want it to do that, which is exactly what is happening to me every time I start using this option.
Besides, even though I hate designing a GUI with all my heart, I still don't consider changing a menu option into a drop-down box or a radio button a "significant development".
It's several years since this has been introduced to VD and this thread was created almost nine months ago. So my personal opinion is, phaeron does not see what might be harmful on his great feature because he either does not use it or is a kind of perfect human who never forgets to switch off a hidden setting that he might have switched on two weeks ago. |
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| stephanV |
| Posted: Sep 7 2010, 09:24 PM |
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| QUOTE | | It's several years since this has been introduced to VD and this thread was created almost nine months ago. So my personal opinion is, phaeron does not see what might be harmful on his great feature because he either does not use it or is a kind of perfect human who never forgets to switch off a hidden setting that he might have switched on two weeks ago. |
Phaeron does not do free-on-demand coding; he has a real life and fixes can be delayed indefinitely in principle. So please keep such opinions to yourself because you are getting insulting here. You have no right to anything.
He said your request was reasonable and would put it in the next *major* release and apparently this wasn't it. The source code is available so you are free to change it yourself if you can't wait.
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useful links:
VirtualDub, Input plugins and filters, AviSynth, AVI-Mux GUI, AC3ACM by fcchandler, VirtualDub FAQ |
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| fredgiblet |
| Posted: Sep 7 2010, 09:57 PM |
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| QUOTE | | I consider this a bug, too. Bug is in my opinion when a program does things it is not intended to be doing. And I believe VD is not intended to shut down your computer when you don't want it to do that, which is exactly what is happening to me every time I start using this option. |
Not doing what you WANT is not a bug, we haven't yet developed mind-reading technology, not doing what you tell it to do is a bug. The option in question lets you tell VDub to shut down your computer, if you tell it to and it does that's not buggy behavior. Now I think we can agree that the behavior that's currently implemented is sub-optimal, but it is not buggy.
| QUOTE | | Besides, even though I hate designing a GUI with all my heart, I still don't consider changing a menu option into a drop-down box or a radio button a "significant development". |
phaeron considers it a significant enough change to wait until the next major version, since he is the only developer it is his and only his decision when and what changes are made. I won't pretend that I always agree with him, but when he makes a decision that's the way things are going to be.
| QUOTE | | It's several years since this has been introduced to VD and this thread was created almost nine months ago. So my personal opinion is, phaeron does not see what might be harmful on his great feature because he either does not use it or is a kind of perfect human who never forgets to switch off a hidden setting that he might have switched on two weeks ago. |
He told you the change will be in the next major version, either 1.10 or 2.0, this was not a major version therefore it is not implemented. Acting petulant and insulting isn't likely to make him want to help you any more and as stephan said, the source code is freely available, your previous statement implies you know how to program so you can certainly make any changes you want without needing to wait for phaeron. |
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| Kasuha |
| Posted: Sep 8 2010, 03:25 PM |
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I did not say it is not doing what I want. I said it is doing what it is not intended to be doing.
I'm sorry if it's not obvious to you but VirtualDub is not an utility to shut down your computer. VirtualDub is a program for processing videos.
If it was utility to shut down the computer then it would be clear that it shuts down your computer and remembers which way did you select to do so for next run. But it's NOT.
When I want VD to shut down my PC, I want it to do that ONCE and it means NOW after it finishes processing its videos, because it's late, I closed all my other applications, I am perfectly sure there will be nothing going on on my PC when it ends and now I want to go sleep instead of waiting for it to finish.
Every other program I ever met that featured the "shutdown when finished" option was aware of the fact that it is not normally intended to do so, that it is just one-time action and that it can screw up things if it's not kept obvious what's going to happen.
Not so much VD.
The way it is implemented in VD, whenever you decide to let VD to shut down the computer, you turn it into application for shutting down the computer, but masked as video editor. Sorry but I'm not into pranks. I really expect a video editor to do what it should be doing - i.e. process videos WITH NO DESTRUCTIVE SIDE EFFECTS.
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