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| Posted by: rjisinspired May 6 2011, 01:11 AM |
| I'm looking into upgrading possibly the cpu. I don't know if I may need a new board? I have an Intel D945GCCR board with an Intel P4 3.0Ghz XT64 with hyperthreading CPU with 2gb of ram and for standard video sizes and standard definition things aren't too bad with speed. It's when working with these Hi-def pieces from a Flip cam is where the issues arise. I find that I can only load about 20 or so small segments of Flip clips into any editor and it dumps because of memory issues. I can always get more memory but I don't think this would help with speed much? My board will accept a dual core processor, 2 cores, not sure about 4 or more? I guess a dual core will be better than what I am using anyway. The slowest of all processes is the deshaking. I can't spend a lot but anything more current I suppose would be better than what I currently have. |
| Posted by: phaeron May 7 2011, 10:08 PM |
| Pentium 4 CPUs are much slower than newer CPUs at the same clock speed... and by slower, it's probably as bad as half speed compared to a Core 2 or Core i7. If you can go to a Core 2 you should see a major improvement in video processing speed. With regard to running out of memory, remember that there is a 2GB limit for a 32-bit program regardless of how much physical memory you have or whether the OS is 64-bit. A 32-bit program can only safely use about 1.6GB of memory before it risks crashing out due to address space fragmentation. What I would recommend doing first is seeing if you can cheaply or temporarily boost the system to 3GB and make sure the page file is at least 4GB. If the program still crashes out, then either it's not a memory problem or you have a problem with the program or workflow that won't be solved by a hardware upgrade. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 8 2011, 02:15 PM |
| Thanks Phareon. Is Core2 and dual core the same thing? I remember from talk shows I use to listen to a few years ago would separate the terms? Supported CPUs for my board look to be: Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor Intel Pentium® Dual-Core Processor Intel Celeron® Processor 400 Sequence Intel shows only 4 compatible types for Core 2: http://processormatch.intel.com/COMPDB/SearchResult.aspx?Boardname=D945GCCR |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 8 2011, 07:49 PM |
| This is supposedly the best for core 2 that I can get with my current board: http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Dual-Core-Processor-800MHz-LGA775/dp/B0015BUFCQ I would have to save up for a board. It will be a while before I can buy everything needed. Also can I substitute PC2-4300 ram with PC2-5300? I have Crucial sticks, DDR2, 240 pin, 266hz, currently. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 8 2011, 08:02 PM |
| Just checked and I do have the page file set at 4096, been on custom for a long time actually. So it looks like my best bet is to just get the Core 2 CPU and leave the memory capacity as it is? Update: How much of an improvement would I get from say going from a P4 XT64 with hyperthreading, 3.0Ghrz to an E4700 Core 2 at 2.6 Ghrz? |
| Posted by: ale5000 May 8 2011, 09:13 PM |
| If you put a CPU over the specific described on the motherboard site (higher FSB for example, or also Core 2 Quad), it still may work fine as long as the socket is the same; I have done it myself. Before doing it update the BIOS, also a beta BIOS if the latest stable is too old. Maybe before buy ask the store to try, if it work. |
| Posted by: phaeron May 14 2011, 08:40 PM |
| Core 2 and dual core aren't the same thing. Core 2 refers to a CPU architecture, while dual core is a generic term meaning two CPU cores in the same chip package. There are CPUs using the Core 2 architecture that are single core, dual core, quad core, etc. Going from a 3.0GHz P4 to a 2.6GHz Core 2 should be a major improvement. The Core 2 will also throttle down much more gracefully when not at full load. |
| Posted by: evropej May 16 2011, 04:17 AM |
| There is a dual core processor which is truly a dual core such as Pen D 945. The core 2 duo is a semi dual or quad core. The performance increase is high when you go to core 2 duo. But the most improvement comes from the Core i7 2600 processor. You can overclock the cores to 4.6GHz with no issues. Combine this with SSD performance, and you have yourself a great machine. But of course cost brings us back to reality. I am running Core i7 950 at 4.14GHz and I can do live previews of deshaker at 720. Anything above that requires 4.6GHz or even more. Keep that in mind. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 17 2011, 02:58 PM |
| Thanks evropej for the explanations. Cost is a factor for me. I would need to win the lottery to get what I would need, ideally. You mean to tell me a live 30 fps preview of deshaker at 720!? That's insane! Without any other filters and at 4th scale deshaking I get, if lucky, 2 fps at 864 X 480! 1 fps at full 720! I'm still getting "out of memory" issues when loading about 8 minutes of Flip video in any of my editors. How do people load full length movies into their computers if this is the case? I've seen people do this even on their laptops and I don't see how with all of the heat and spec issues of laptops. In task manager when things start to barf I notice the peak memory going to 2.99GB and then just pukes. Is an editor opening up a raw Flip file or it converting it into uncompressed in the editor? Shouldn't the size of the Flip video be the "real" indicator of how much memory is being used? If so then it doesn't seem to be the case with me? Thanks Phaeron for clearing up the questions on the CPU types. |
| Posted by: DarrellS May 18 2011, 09:03 AM |
| I have an Intel DG965WH in my other PC and like you said, the highest CPU that I can use is the E6500. You need a graphics card that supports HD video also. I put my Radeon 2400XT in that PC. Not sure how well it encodes since I don't use it for much. It's just an emergency PC in case this one breaks down. This PC is a Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P with a Q6600 overclocked to 3.2Ghz and 4GB of G-Skill DDR2 1066 memory and it encodes x264/aac pretty fast. My brother's P55-760 I5 runs circles around mine though. I'd like to build a new I5 2500K but the motherboards look pretty lacking. Maybe when the new stuff from Intel comes out then they'll have better boards. The AMD boards seem to have better offerings and they have a six core processor for around the same price as the I5 2500. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 18 2011, 03:52 PM |
| Thanks DarrellS I'm looking at AMD CPUs and they seem slightly lower in price. It also looks like the Gigabyte motherboards are cheaper while the ASUS ones are more pricier. I forgot there were more choices than "Intel" Question is will the newer boards and CPUs, Intel, AMD, GIGA or ASUS take Win XP Pro? I say this because I remember Win2000, which I loved, when trying to put that OS in with the board I put in in December of 2007, same one I am using now, it didn't accept Win2000 because of either some ACPI deal or other incompatibility, can't remember totally but I do remember a blue screen which mentioned something wasn't good with this board accepting Win2000. I really would like to stick with XP if at all possible. 6 cores does sound kind of nice to me. In an ideal world I would like to have 8/16 or more cores and have one of these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lastfm/2266368081/ But I now remember what Phaeron said about 32 bit programs using around 2GBs of ram only? Maybe that 128GB setup is for a 64 bit system or I'm guessing supercomputer of some kind with special programs to take advantage of that much ram? A supercomputer would be nice. Probably process a one hour h264 clip in like 10 seconds lol. Vdub on a supercomputer :-) Anyone know of anybody who has tried running Vdub on a supercomputer setup? |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 18 2011, 04:26 PM |
| Another thing. A video card. Would this be as much more help so as to free the CPU itself from the chores of processing? I have used audio card before but never had an external video card. |
| Posted by: evropej May 18 2011, 10:17 PM |
| Here are my suggestions: 1. Look into a core i5 processor, best deal as far as price goes. I would even suggest a 2500 since the mobo is cheaper. Dont get the hyperthreading, it does nothing but cost money. 2. I did an AMD to Core i7 comparison and the AMD lost pretty bad. I have nothing against AMD, just stating facts here, vdub processing was the task. Compressions and deshaker processing. 3. A GeForce 460 or 560 is my recommendation. I say this so you have some support for new features of new GPUs. If you want just video power, I saw 9800 on slickdeals for less then 50 bucks. 4. MicroCenter, google it, has great deals on processors and computer hardware. I suggest an Antec 300 case from them for about 50 bucks. 5. Last but not least, if you want to use more then 3.24 gigs, you must go to a new OS. Vista is crap. Windows 7 has the same crappy interface but runs a bit faster. 6. Get a good heatsink and overclock these bad boys, they can take a 10% overclock with stock fan, 20% with a decent fan, and 30-40% with a good fan. 7. Find a small 40 GIG SSD. This is a must since its the bottleneck in most systems. You can buy the smaller drives for a decent price. 8. Shop around and wait. Deals pop up left and right for memory and drives. But in either case, wait for a good deal. Good luck in your search =] |
| Posted by: evropej May 18 2011, 11:48 PM |
| 600 bucks for a new kick ass system, what do you think? ram 65 http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/51785/newegg-8gb-2x4gb-g.skill-ripjaws-x-ddr3-1333-desktop-memory hd 34 http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/51765/tigerdirect.com-seagate-barracuda-lp-1tb-5900rpm-sata-3.5-hard-drive cpu 180 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0354589 mobo 62 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0326528 case 56 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0283272 power 68 http://www.buy.com/prod/ocz-technology-stealthxstream-2-ocz600sxs2-atx12v-eps12v-power-supply/q/sellerid/2083092/loc/101/215888148.html vga 144 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130591&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-EVGA-_-14130591 |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 19 2011, 03:12 AM |
| Wow thanks evropej for taking the time to post these links and information. Bookmarked them all. |
| Posted by: evropej May 19 2011, 02:06 PM |
| Two of the deals expired already. Keep an eye out though, they come back after a while. What is your budget? |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 19 2011, 04:03 PM |
| Very limited. I use a card and end up paying back monthly on it in like $50 increments. Good thing I don't have a girlfriend or am not married, lol. |
| Posted by: evropej May 19 2011, 04:53 PM |
| I would suggest then investing your money on a processor only. Go for the 2500 core i7 with a cheap mobo, get an open box which is even cheaper. Ram is cheap now days. Also, get a cheap video card like a 9800GT or a 260GTX. Dont go cheap on a power supply, the repercussions are horrible and as bad as system failures. AMD just does not have the horse power to do video processing like the core i7. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 19 2011, 05:45 PM |
| Would you know of any motherboard and CPU package deals? I'm looking around but haven't found anything yet. I usually go to amazon or Newegg. |
| Posted by: evropej May 20 2011, 05:19 AM |
| Microcenter has the best deals for processors. They recently had a core i3 with mobo for 100. Cant beat that. |
| Posted by: evropej May 20 2011, 01:31 PM |
| Microcenter has a deal today, core i7 2500 with asus p8p67 mobo for $299.98 bones. The have an amd machine for 300 as well. Thats a great deal. |
| Posted by: DarrellS May 22 2011, 06:20 AM |
| I wouldn't touch an ASUS motherboard. Gigabyte all the way. I don't like any offerings in the new chipset motherboards. You have to pay twice as much to get half as much. If I was building a computer today, I'd get the 2nd generation X58 board with a 950 I7. GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - $189.99 after $10 rebate 8 SATA 3.0, 2 SATA 6.0, 1 PATA, 1 FDD, 2 e-SATA, 2 Firewire on back and 1 onboard, 1 optical audio out and 1 coax audio out, 2 USB 3.0 on back, 4 USB 2.0 on back, 4 USB 2.0 onboard, 10/100/1000Mbps Lan, 6 channel audio, 4 PCI-e x16, 2 PCI-e x1, 1 PCI and Triple channel DDR3 2200/1333/1066/800. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423 Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950 - $269.99 (will already get superfast encode speeds with this processor, overclock it and the encode speeds will be outrageous) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9T-12GBRL - $147.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231358 Thermaltake TR-700P TR2 BRONZE 700W ATX 12V V2.3 / EPS 12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - $104.99 (I have a Corsair but I like the cable management of this PSU. My brother owns one) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153129 EVGA 01G-P3-1366-TR GeForce GTX 460 SE (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - $114.99 after $30 rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130591 COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Advanced Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $89.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216 CORSAIR CWCH60 Hydro Series H60 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler - $69.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181015 This might be too much for you but SATA connectors are a premium for me. I have 6 HDDs and running out of space and I need the IDE for two Pioneer DVD burners. I have a Q6600 machine (overclocked to 3.2Ghz) right now so I am not too anxious to build right now. I would like to build a I5 2500K machine like evropej showed but I just can't find a motherboard to suit my needs with this CPU. I'm sure it would smoke with the unlocked chip overclocked to 4.2Ghz. . ...or I'd wait till the end of the year when the new boards and CPUs come out and see what they have to offer. My brother built the 1st generation I5 760 around Christmas and it encodes very fast (a lot faster than mine) but you can't get the motherboard he bought anymore. You can still buy the CPU but the motherboard offerings are not very good. It was obsolete a month after he bought it when the Sandy Bridge came out. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired May 23 2011, 02:33 PM |
| Nice Darrell. I'll keep those links in reference. |
| Posted by: evropej May 23 2011, 03:53 PM |
| Darrells, Check out microcenter, much better prices then newegg. Also checkout slickdeals, huge price cuts on ram especially. A quick note, a buddy of mine built a core i7 2600 machine with the same specs as mine ( core i7 950). Guess what, at the same clock speeds, the two machines performed the same lol. The two tasks were deshking a video and compressing with xvid, a decent benchmark. The only reason I suggest the core i7 2500 or 2600 is the cheaper motherboards and the higher overclocking capability. |
| Posted by: DarrellS May 25 2011, 07:57 AM |
| Yeah, I'd love to build a new machine with the unlocked CPU's but I'm very disappointed with the motherboard choices. With the motherboard choices out there, the X58 seems to have all the bells and whistles for the right price. You'd have to get the Z68X for twice the price to even come halfway close to the X58A. I sometimes see stuff at my local Fry's at a much better deal than newegg and I don't have to wait for it to get here. I bought an E6500 in January to replace a 3.2Ghz Pentium D on an older Intel 965 MB (that's the biggest chip it would use) for $70. I wish we had a Microcenter here. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired Jul 11 2011, 07:57 PM |
| OK. I guess one last question and I tried looking this up without much success. Would say a Geoforce 8 or 9 series card work with a D945GCCR intel motherboard? My best guess would be "probably not", speed issue. That board has one PCI-E slot. Better yet maybe I should ask the question this way: what would be the minimum "CUDA" based card I could get away with using that type of motherboard? I don't care about high end processing. Anything that would be at least better than what I have now. Hell I would be satisfied with a 25% increase in performance. I have a 600 watt PS already so I think I would be able to handle one of these cards. |
| Posted by: DarrellS Jul 11 2011, 10:28 PM |
| I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as you have the PCI-e slot. Obviously you won't be able to use SLI but since you're not a gamer then it's no big deal. The onboard graphics on the 945 chipset is pretty week. It doesn't support 1080p. I don't believe it even supports 1080i. It's probably your best bet until you can build the computer that you want and then you'll already have the video card when you decide to build. The CUDA card will only help on encoders that support it. Virtualdub does not support CUDA. You will see decent increases in speed but not huge increases since you can only upgrade the CPU to an E4700 but you can overclock it to improve your encoding speeds. I've read people OCing to 3.45Ghz on air...oh wait, nevermind. You can't overclock an Intel board. So you would have to get a different board (Gigabyte are great overclockers) and if you're going to buy a new board then you might as well replace everything else. If someone could figure out how to use the cudaH264Enc commandline encoder with Virtualdub's external encoder feature then we wouldn't have to worry about CPU power and could rely on the Nvidia GPU. I heard that x264 is supposed to be working on an encoder that uses both CPU and GPU. I don't know if this is true or not but would help a lot if true. I've used Mediacoder which uses CUDA and it encoded the same file at least five times faster that x264 and I'm running a Q6600 CPU OCed to 3.2Ghz. EDIT: I googled your first question and it said that you can use any modern card on your board but that it wouldn't run at peak performance since the PCI-e slot on your board is 1.0 instead of the newer 2.0. The PSU is powerful enough to run a newer card. The video card will not increase your speed at all if the encoding software cannot take advantage of the CUDA encoder. As mentioned above, Mediacoder can use the CUDA encoder. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired Jul 12 2011, 02:59 AM |
| Thanks Darrell I just noticed that Vegas 9 doesn't even support GPU neither, have to move up to version 10 for that and yet I'm reading about users having trouble with using GPU with the newer Vegas. Is it possible that hyperthreading could be slowing things down for me? I had read that HT is a waste in certain applications and could actually bog certain things down more. The CPU I have is a P4 (Cedar Mill) 631 hyperthreading type. I won't try to overclock on this system. Was one of my ideas until you said that it couldn't be done on an intel board. Sad really. Hear I am still working on a clip from last Wednesday. Trying to get past all of the errors and trouble. When there is a technical error or a user error the video has to be redone over again. Very frustrating and a waste of time and doing unnecessary steps that shouldn't need to be done which extends the time many-folds and kills overall video quality. Using the filters I need in Vdub, I'm at 1.3 FPS and this is at a size of 864 X 486 and without the use of a deshaker! I had to convert the mp4's to huffyuv in Vegas to put into Vdub to do filtering then do another save to huffyuv for Vegas from Vdub before the titling in Vegas because the filter changes in Vdub can mess the text up. That is an example of how bad my workflow really is and has been for a while now. Matters get much worse when Vegas screws up transitions or if portions of the video goes red or black on me in the preview or if I overreach on the time or amount of mp4 clips, boom, the editors go down with errors. I wish I was back with standard DV right at this point. I just might do that but I remember my DV cam had a problem optically and when I looked into it more after a poster mentioned something about a lens issue it looks like lens astigmatism, no idea why I would have that. If you do a search for "fountain video" on here you will see an example video of the effect. I noticed the effect last June/July. It came some time after receiving "C:" errors when loading a cassette tape. For now I will stop doing Flip videos and somehow save up for the parts. This will take a long time and by that time whatever I get I hope it doesn't become obsolete too soon. That is my fear. |
| Posted by: DarrellS Jul 15 2011, 08:39 PM |
| It took me a long time before I started encoding x264. I had no desire to use my 3.2Ghz P4 to encode a video for 24-48 hours. Now that I have my Q6600 OCed to 3.2Ghz, it's not a big deal encoding x264. My brother's I5-760 set to Turbo blows my Q6600 away but my Q6600 is fast enough to keep me from spending a lot of money (that I don't have) on a new build. I ran the x264 benchmark on my other PC (the E6500 on the Intel DG965WH board). Here are the results (the 2nd pass numbers are the ones that count)... 720p_results-E6500 @ 2.93Ghz Pass 1 ------ encoded 1442 frames, 27.95 fps, 3909.88 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 28.00 fps, 3909.88 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 27.93 fps, 3909.88 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 28.15 fps, 3909.88 kb/s Pass 2 ------ encoded 1442 frames, 4.84 fps, 3962.07 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 4.83 fps, 3962.59 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 4.86 fps, 3962.74 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 4.81 fps, 3962.75 kb/s Q6600 @ 3.2Ghz Pass 1 ------ encoded 1442 frames, 97.87 fps, 3912.26 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 99.13 fps, 3912.26 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 99.34 fps, 3912.26 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 98.60 fps, 3912.26 kb/s Pass 2 ------ encoded 1442 frames, 21.07 fps, 3961.64 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 21.17 fps, 3961.11 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 21.12 fps, 3961.95 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 21.08 fps, 3961.67 kb/s Everything eventually becomes obsolete but the P4 has been obsolete for 4 years now. My Q6600 is still respectable to me but new CPUs are twice as fast. EDIT: My brother's I5-760 at 2.90Ghz... Pass 1 ------ encoded 1442 frames, 120.02 fps, 3912.26 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 120.01 fps, 3912.26 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 121.12 fps, 3912.26 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 120.80 fps, 3912.26 kb/s Pass 2 ------ encoded 1442 frames, 23.80 fps, 3962.13 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 23.92 fps, 3961.32 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 23.91 fps, 3961.34 kb/s encoded 1442 frames, 23.88 fps, 3961.03 kb/s I'll have talk him into doing a strong OC to see what it will do. When he had it running at the highest setting in EasyTune, it encoded a 1080p TS file that I had encoded at 25fps at 47fps (that sounds pretty high, it must've been 37fps). |
| Posted by: -vdub- Jul 16 2011, 08:06 AM |
| What time then did each of these take to complete the 2 pass, yours and your brothers. Also is there a difference with cpus not overclocked ? |
| Posted by: DarrellS Jul 16 2011, 09:24 AM |
| The E6500 took a while to run the test. Both the Q6600 and the I5 took less than five minutes. Overclocking makes a big difference in encoding times. A stock Q6600 (2.4 Ghz) encoded the test file at 16.07fps while a Q6600 overclocked to 3.6 Ghz encoded the test file at 23.59fps. A stock I5-2500k (3.3 Ghz) encoded the test file at 28.50fps and a I5-2500K overclocked to 4.5 Ghz encoded the test file at 38.17fps. Here is a link to the test results from the x264 benchmark... http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=669&pgno=5 With my Q6600 at 3.2 Ghz, I can use the external encoder in Virtualdub with x264 set to superfast and encode a 640x480 file at over 200fps with mp3 passthrough. You have to use an aftermarket cooler if you're going to overclock. I've got a Coolermaster Hyper 212 in both of my machines. I'd like to get a Corsair H55 or H70 liquid cooler for the Q6600 machine. I could run 3.6 and maybe even 3.8 Ghz. I've run it at 3.6 for the x264 benchmark test but it wouldn't run using Prime95 to stress the machine. |
| Posted by: rjisinspired Jul 16 2011, 12:31 PM |
| Those are pretty decent examples. I would be happy with those stats The Q6600 is an LGA775. According to Intel the highest processor that my board can use is an E4700. I don't know if that CPU or any Core 2 would work in my board? The price of it seems a bit highish considering you could get a quad core now for about that price. I've notice that with stores that whatever is older and still in stock is many times higher in price. My Digital 8 camera for example; some stores still carry it but for $999.99 when I paid $250.00 for it back in 2006, lol. I have been thinking more about the graphics cards and they say you need DirectX 10 or 11. Hmmm I guess I'm going to have to eventually upgrade from XP? Thing is I don't want to just yet. There are unofficial packs for DX10 for XP but I'm not installing anything I don't have a clue about. My best guess is by having DX9 I wouldn't have any of the advanced video stuff but for just processing it should be ok? Or is DX10 a requirement for just having the card? |
| Posted by: -vdub- Jul 16 2011, 03:54 PM |
Shame http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=669&pgno=5 doesn't list any exact same setup difference for oc and non oc  |
| Posted by: mayhem Jul 16 2011, 08:31 PM |
| Its impossible to cover all the variables, alot of performance can be affected by how your OS is setup too. I know a couple years ago when I went from a single-core 2.93Ghz rig to my current Core 2 Quad 2.66Ghz rig the difference was down right obscene. Re-encoding a test file, I think it was 720x480 with the same codec, think it was xvid, and same two filters applied for instance went from about 25fps to over 125fps, which was nuts. Comparing my win7 laptop to the xpsp3 desktop mentioned above is also a little bizzarre. The laptop is dual-core and the desktop quad, so I never expected the laptop to match it, and it didnt, but I thought it would at least be no worse than half speed, since the Ghz rating is about the same, and they both have 4GB memory, and the laptop is actually a newer chip type with more instruction sets,etc. But doing a test file between them again, different file this time obviously, but the laptop got 52fps and the desktop 130fps, which is more than double, even with the laptop plugged in and the power-saving features off. Not sure how I account for that, obviously it has 2 more cores, but other than that the only real differences are the laptop is win7 and the desktop XP. Also the laptop has integrated video obviously, ATI HD4250-based and the desktop is still HD4000-class though, but a 4870 or something like that. Even using 64-bit versions of vdub and codec it was still slower than 32-bit XP, oh well, maybe laptops are just slower by design somehow. Certainly OS-wise its different, even with unessential services trimmed the laptop still commonly has 35-40 running while the desktop only 20, and thats with firewall and anti-spyware going, else it'd be 17. Certainly though, as mentioned in my first paragraph, going from a single-core P4 to a dual or quad core system he will see significant improvments. I'd consider looking for a local store that does computer liquidations, sales of "off-lease" systems, which is to say used, but not used in the sense of individual consumers, I mean corporate systems that get rolled over every couple years, these are often well-kept machines that have gotten pretty light duty. At the place in my town here my mom got an off-lease dual-core AMD-based machine, 2.2Ghz with 2GB DDR2, 320GB sata drive, dvd burner, 256MB videocard for all of $240 with XP pre-installed, obviously no monitor or anything with it though, just the tower. For $450 they sell 3Ghz dual-cores with 4GB DDR3 and 500-1TB drives, with 512MB vidcards and win7. Odds are theres a place like this in alot of cities, they just might not have big fancy websites like Newegg,etc. So looking for a package deal might be farther along than trying to replace individual parts, by the time you add up the shipping on all the parts orders. Plus you'd be upgrading everything besides the CPU, the memory would be faster, faster disk subsystem (I assume that in a P4 its IDE or SATA1-based, not SATA2), better video card,etc. |
| Posted by: DarrellS Jul 16 2011, 10:24 PM | ||
No, the Q6600 would not work on your board and if you could find it, the price would be way too much (the E6500 won't work on your board either). I was going to pick up another Q6600 when the I5s came out since they had dropped to around $180 and I figured they would drop even more but as soon as the I5s came out, they skyrocketed in price ($40-$50), taking them out of the market. I paid $224 for my Q6600 when it came out and my brother paid $209 for the I5-760. The unlocked I5-2500K is only $180 at Microcenter right now. The I7-960 is $230. The I5-2500K or a I7-950 on a Gigabyte X58A motherboard would be the way to go for the money. DirectX 10 is for gamers. As for 64bit, there are not many programs that can take advantage of it. CAD programs and the newest versions of Photoshop can take advantage of the extra memory but few other programs can. The CUDA graphics cards make encoding way faster than CPU but there are only a couple of programs that can take advantage of it. Mediacoder and Bodaboom but X264 produces a lot better quality. X264 at the Superfast preset is as fast as CUDA. The main advantage of a newer graphics card is that it supports 1080p H264 and VC-1 video whereas your 945 integrated graphics doesn't. When software manufacturers start writing software that supports CUDA and the Intel CPU with onboard graphics then we'll see major gains in encoding speeds but right now, CPU power is still king. |
| Posted by: DarrellS Jul 16 2011, 10:27 PM | ||
Check a different page. I just linked to the page that listed all CPUs (OCed and non OCed so he could see the difference) and 2nd pass since that is where the encoding is involved. |
| Posted by: -vdub- Jul 17 2011, 01:59 PM |
| Thinking now of upgrading myself but keeping to xp os only since win7 has to many problems. Beside many hardware devices i have are not supported or will ever be on win7. Looking at the non oc on that list they even are good compared to single core, well above single core ht i use now. usb3 i could do with and need a pci-e for that and many other reason to upgrade. Intel had a bad few years not so long ago, and odd hicup again now and then. Never wanted to or need to oc a cpu, not sure any intel i have had could do so if i tried. BTW. With new mb would it be better to go with more than one gfx joined together. This i read was the way many did a new mb a good while ago. Or is one gfx all that is needed now. x64 or x86 unsure probably x64 since has more pipes. And use x86 for softwares that no improvement is made with x64. Would be all new to me and will see. Not jumping aboard just yet, will do homework first by travelling the sites, may take a month or few. New year sales maybe my target for a new build, egt cheaper bargains. Not a gamer so don't have any need for cutting edge technology usb3 would be the latest. Since that seems to be the best speed for pasing data between pcs atm. Wow i just looked its all sata now, not many pata hdd drives left (if any at all). Seems haven't looked at new hardware for a while  Mediacoder Not many good things to say about that software. bloated, opencandy (tracking), internet connection (who has one on their capture, tanscoder or encoderdedicated pc !. Transcode to xvid for exapmle then mux with ffmpeg where ffmpeg will change the file again based on its settings. Go look in container tab select ffmpeg and look at the options. For example transcode an xvid with I frame set to 200 and on ffmpeg set that to 100. Oh look and the output file is 100 for each I frame. Yes other ffmpeg settings also are added at mux time. Use another muxer there is no other ones that work good with xvid for example. Ok transcode individual streams, no good since if need to copy audio it won't work with muxer and remuxer disabled. Anyway this is virtualdub forum and reason why we are here is because virtualdub is so much better. Altough when all is said and done mediacoder does produce good xvids if you know how to get around the ffmpeg muxer. That is not to use any muxer or remuxer and demux away from mediacoder first then transcode later remux later away from mediacoder. Then again what really do all those xvid settings really mean. If cannot understand each one how do you know what to set correctly. Since hardly none are the same id name that xvid normaly has in the xvid encoder settings. |
| Posted by: DarrellS Jul 17 2011, 06:52 PM |
| If you stay with XP then your only choice is x86. Well, there is a 64bit XP it is sucks. AMD has Bulldozer coming in August I believe (they keep pushing it back) and Intel will have something new at the first of the year. The only need for two graphics cards would be for gaming. With the quality of the new onboard graphics and integrated graphics built into the new Sandybridge CPUs, a separate graphics card is not a must like it was a couple of years ago. Talk is, that in the near future, there won't be a need for a separate graphics card at all. Even for gamers. The reason that I would opt for an I7 build is because the new motherboards don’t have IDE and they only have 6 SATA connectors. I have two IDE DVD burners, seven SATA HDDs and a WD MyBook and an external enclosure. The X58A has IDE, FDD, ten SATA connectors (2 SATA 6Gb/s and 8 SATA 3Gb/s), 2 x USB3, 2 x 1394a, 2 x e-SATA. If you have no desire to overclock then a GIGABYTE GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 with I5-2500 and DDR3 1333 memory would be all you’d need to upgrade for around $400. Oh, you’d have to buy an expansion card for more HDDs. It has Firewire and e-SATA but it only has 5 SATA connectors (you could use three 3TB HDDs for storage if you go with Windows 7). The reason that I downloaded MediaCoder was to try out the CUDA encoder with my Nvidia card. It was about five times faster than x264 with x264 set to fast. There is a guy on the Videohelp board that is really pushing people to come up with software that will use CUDA and Intel’s Media SDK. The technology is there for superfast encoding but no software makers are creating anything to take advantage of it. CUDA has been out for years now. I tried using the CUDA commandline encoder that is in Mediacoder in Virtualdub’s external encoder but I could not get it to work. |
| Posted by: -vdub- Jul 17 2011, 08:06 PM |
| Ah so pci ports are still on newer mbs that is good. What is not that i would have to buy many controllers cards and fill those pci slots to use all the pata hdds i have. Have no sata ones and don't need any atm. I would choose intel based board after all everyone writes for intel based mb and cpu. Better to stick with what coders develope for. Then at least know if something is wrong if not performing to specification the software expects it should do. Cuda well if every mb is to have onboard and is future proof. Wasn't that the whole reason behing external gfx boards since in time time at all onboard gfx was a dead duck, maybe different now then ? If everyone had onboard graphics like i would have an intel one with intel mb. Then there would be no cuda unless have onboard nvidia. Nvidia past history is frought with non fixed bugs and mb problems. I even had gfx nvidia that had bugs that nvidia stated they would never fix. Even though the user could easily fix them (after users found out how to). How can a company be so bad and expect customer loyalty when they give poor service to customers. Since then i have been with ati and everything is rosey working very well, no problems. Now i see that amd have taken over ati, i'm sure the gfx will be crap now. Intel sdk may work if intel look at it, but maybe it is intel doesn't want to bed down with nvidia. Since it will the their sdk will need changes to adapt to cuda maybe. Maybe reason why no one will develope cuda using intel sdk. Or they waiting for amd to get their act together for decent ati offering with intel sdk. 1394a - take it back it should have been a 1394b (1394b come about before usb3) I would try x264 with avisynth and add to mediacoder and virtualdub for testing. Not tried x264 transcoding yet to many variables just yet, besides all the new options to learn for it. But would be interested if same size file as xvid was pssible but with better picture qulaity. And play on all pcs even the older ones many use as a video server. Then i'm sure we would all know of it, since would be the new xvid repacement. I'm sure by then xvid team would have updated their encoder to be better again. A reason i do not buy new released mb as its not until a a mb is a year or two old. Does it have its last microcode update for all cpus it can use. If mb manufactures updated their mb firmware upto five year that would be a different story, Buying new relased mb would be ok. They shoot themself by not doing this, i don't know any mb manufacture that don't update bios for five years. Another reason i don't like updating very often, feel like getting a raw deal, not value for money. |