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| SillKotscha |
 Posted: Jul 24 2002, 07:16 PM |
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smart Moderator
Group: Moderators
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Capture FAQ (last update 07/24/02)
Q: What’s behind the word Capture?
· An analog input (TV, (S)VHS, Camcorder etc..) is digitaly stored on your HD.
Q: What do I need?
· All you need is a video input. Either you use the Video-In of your TV- Capture device or Video-In of your graphic accelerator (e.g.: of ASUS or ATI).You’ll receive a better input signal by using the video in of your graphic accelerator.
Q: Which TV Cap-Devices are used?
· Most common video Capture Chip's are produced by Brooktree, and/or by the company Conexant (see avih's comment). Frequent chip variants are the BT848 and 878. On current devices other video chips can be found, e.g. Zoran (ZR36125), or Philips (SAA7146). Some devices are additionally equipped with a FM-Tuner for wireless reception (BT848 or 878). For BT8x8 chip current/alternative drivers can be found on the Sourceforge server: http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/
The best TV program (no, not the BBC  ) is Dscaler. From circumstances not described in more details another good
alternative is MoreTV. Both programs ONLY with the TV chip variants BT8x8!!
Q: Which resolution shall I use to Capture?
· let’s have a look in some more details. There are mainly two different systems, that are used (PAL and NTSC). PAL (Phase Alternate LINE) is used in Middle Europe and is the standard of (i.e. german) television engineering. The television picture can be represented maximally with the PAL standard resolution of 768x576 pixels. That means:
maximum has to be taken up to the possible resolution of 7**x576, whereby the horizontal resolution depends on your Capture device. This implies that there’re only two useful Capture resolutions: Full PAL (7**x576) and 1/2-pal (384x288). If it is your goal of converting the recorded file into the VCD format then record with a resolution of 352x288 . If a super video CD (SVCD) is to be provided, the resolution must be 480 x 576 (PAL) or 480 x 480 (NTSC).
· the advantage of 1/2-pal (384x288) Captures is obvious. An Interlacing within movements is not possible (Deinterlacing not necessary). Details to the topic can be reread here: (De)interlacen - Basics (german).
· in the reversal conclusion the disadvantage is obvious: for full image quality, informations are missing.
· when you select a resolution, then make sure that you do not deviate from the horizontal resolution!!
Q: Why does my Capture software proposes a resolution of 640x480?
· It is because of the origin of your software/drivers. Your software drivers are written in a country with NTSC standard. This can be nonsense in your Country (PAL-standard) or even not.
Q: OK ! Everything is well and beautifully But how to capture ?
English: Luke's (Cart's) capture guide: http://www.lukesvideo.com/
· there are also some good capture guides in german language, maybe sometime they will be translated:
Capture-Guide by BaronVlad
Old Capture-Guide by BaronVlad und SillKotscha (many pics -> nearly self explaining) on Goldis page, he has stolen it, so he can pay the traffic;)
very good alternatives are of course:
- Mattheo's (low&high) quality Capture Guide
- Hawk's Capture Guide or here:
- Hawk's Capture Guide v.1.2
- Hawk's Capture Guide v.3.0 (SneakPreview)
still a few thoughts...
for all the guys who definitely want to capture directly to DivX/Xvid:
- yes it is possible – but only if:
1. max. resolution is set to 384x288,
2. Capture only in the 1-Pass mode and
3. GMC and Bidirectional Encoding are switched off.
Q: Yes, but why?
THEREFORE! ... and because during the recording your input is encoded - > loss of information! Further problem: Capture with strong compressing codecs falsifies the source material (e.g. Video home system Tapes already fed up with high disturbances (Noise)). A possible use of filters makes no more sense.
- Ever tried to match a desired file size (e.g. 700MB) with a 1-Pass Encoding ?
- Have fun with cutting the commercials, when VDub needs hours to find the next Keyframe!
- filters (Cropping! as well) can be only used afterwards, if the film is completely compressed again. Apart from the very bad quality you’ll get your efforts wouldn’t have made sense at all (= no saving of time).
best choice:
Huffyuv-Codec. Do you have problems with your HD (space), then it is possible to use a MJPEG codec (e.g.: PicVideo Q 19/20).
Pay attention on your TV chip!
- with the chip variants BT8x8 the OVERLAY mode has to be switched off during the recording
- When using Philips's based cards the OVERLAY mode has to be activated!!
The recording using WIN2K/XP with WDM drivers can but must not be possible. If VirtualDub is used for the recording, then think of using the following programs, when it comes to this probable error messages (Error 418: NO capture DEVICES installed):
- vfwupd.exe
- dx80bda.exe
- wdm-vfw-wrapper
But there is no warranty. Additional problem: with the Wrapper the processor load and thus the number of dropped Frames can be higher.
Q: Can I crop during the recording? Shouldn’t it save power of my CPU?!
- Yes you can. The Nulltransform - > Cropping filter can already be used during the recording, the problem however often is that you will hardly know exactly how much can be cut off before you’ve seen the movie. possible solution: cut off only little parts (~20 above and down) or look for a comparable film. For example the Starwars episodes have (approximate?) the same format, so that Return of the Jedi can be cropped with the settings Return of the Menace was cropped. Cropping during recording saves the power of your CPU and therefore maybe you will get less dropped frames.
Q: I want to capture with Huffyuv Full PAL, but I get huge files. What to do now?
- Think about a MJPEG e.g. the PicVideo codec (quality set to 19 (long movies, 18 is possible as well). In addition to smaller files this is also (nearly) lossless recording.
Q: After more ~ half an hour the recording breaks off
- Win98 and WinME (ME is very buggy!) use FAT32, that means files cannot be larger than 4 GB and * avi files in common cannot be larger than 2 GB. With a friendly error message windows announces that your system has reached this “magic border”. The solution by Avery Lee, is simple and ingenious at the same time. It is called "Multi segment Capture".
Q: During recording I always have "Dropped Frames"
- your cap-device and your soundcard may not work in the same clock run or your pc is simply not fast enough… then virtualDub drops pictures during the recording, which are missing in the movie afterwards. The ideal case is naturally that this does not happen. A picture corresponds to a frame. With PAL there are 25 picture/second thus 25 fps. It depends now on the relation. If 75 frames are dropped during 3 hours of recording (3Seconds), no human being will see it afterwards. But you will however hear it, because audio and video do not run any longer synchronously. What you should do is: Capture - > timing - > activate Adjust video clock... thus audio and video "are synchronized" already during the recording.
If you like to know more about it:
dropped frames
Q: What can I do against "Dropped Frames"?
- do you have many dropps?... check if the DMA mode is activated on your HD
- overlay turned on during the Capture? - if yes, then try Preview mode or just turn everything off.
- defragmente your HD before recording
- what happens while using PicVideo (Q18-19) instead of recording with Huffyuv?
- any active background processes ? Virus scanner, index service...turn it off
- Think about using this modiefied version of VDub...
http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~dittrich/sync/
Q: I did everything exactly as you told me, but it does not work at all!
- a few hints if you have big problems, but please be careful with some of them!
- new or other drivers of your Capture device and/or graphic accelerator
- new drivers for your motherboard (check out the homepage of the manufacturer, whether your drivers cause busmasterprobs or not)
- try to capture only with a your capture-device and/ or a graphic accelerator in your computer
- If this will work, go ahead and insert your sound device
- try to use the video-in of your graphic accelerator instead of your capture-device (e.g. use you VCR as a tuner)
- check out another OS
- Deactivate unused HD Controller
- try to capture with a resolution of 800x600, 256 colours and the monitor switched to 85 Hz
- use the newest DMA drivers for your Mainboard
- Switch PCI/AGP Latency to 32 in your BIOS
- use your UDMA disks with normal 33 connections
- turn off ACPI mode
- reinstall your system with all new drivers
- what is the temperature of your CPU ?
- etc.p.p.
Q: Isn’t it necessary to be at home during recording?
- You can, but you dont have to. If you use a modified version of Vdub you can use your pc as you know it from your VCR. This is explained in the german Guide. This modified version can be found here
Q: Ok, but have I to set up everything on my own?
- No! You can get a Vdub Timer version with nearly all settings made by clicking here
Q: How to calculate the exact bitrate that is needed for the compression afterwards?
- You can calculate on your own risk or use a bitrate calculator, e.g. the Excel sheet that comes up with the guide.
A last sentence:
Capturing video is a mixture of good settings and good luck, ‘cause no one can exactly tell you something about the perfect settings for your system. You have to try other settings if you are not convinced by your results.
Some words about VirtualDub-Timer...
Where is the official VirtualDub website?
The official VirtualDub site is www.virtualdub.org , NOT www.virtualdub.net. The last URL is a German-language VirtualDub 'mod' site.
original words by cofferscuffs ... and an update post:
- http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&p...5739#post165739
Enough of the instructions... just have fun!!
P.S.: This FAQ does not lay any claim on completeness. For example, there are many many filters out there to treat your results afterwards. It is nearly impossible to describe every filter individually here (but I’m working on it  ), however by far this FAQ would blow up. Especially I’m not dealing here with the peculiarities of different cap-devices. And the worst part of all... most links are (still) in german but until now they can hardly be replaced by others.
P.P.S.: This FAQ was developed in co-operation with BaronVlad and was modified by myself for this board. Thanks to all who made this FAQ possible (Hawk, Mattheo, derKarl, and all other explicitly not mentioned guys from Ultimate up to doom9.org), especially to Ookami and for the nice smalltalk @dvdboard.de (they know what I mean  ).
P.P.P.S: sorry for my crap english 
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"Have you ever noticed that whenever Microsoft calls something 'Smart', it's definitely a feature you want to disable!" |
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| avih |
| Posted: Jul 24 2002, 09:05 PM |
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great faq!
some corrections:
Q: Which TV Cap-Devices are used?
brooktree IS connexant (connexant bought brooktree).
Dropped frames
here's a link to a google automatic translation for the mentioned site: http://translate.google.com/translate?sour...ture/dropps.htm
for all the guys who definitely want to capture directly to DivX/Xvid:
you can capture at any resolution you like, even 768x576 if you have a fast enough cpu. i usually cap at 448x288 (it's NON standard aspect ratio, but i set the PLAYER to 4:3 during playback).
Q: Yes, but why?
you CAN be very accurate with the file size in cbr (i use xvid). it comes down to very few MB difference from what's expected, and then you can re-encode the subtitles to a different bitrate to match your desired size.
finding the next keyframe is as fast as possible, especially if you move the slider while control is pressed, or use the next/prev keyframe icons (yellow key icon). all you have to do is direct stream copy for both audio and video, save each part of the clip as avi, and then append all of them on a clean project. it takes about 5 mins from start to finish, or even less.
cropping can be applied if you can see the film in advance. many networks broadcast each film more than once usually, so you can try different settings at the 1st time, and cap 'for real' in the 2nd one.
cropping of '20' is not recommended since you'll get best compression if your final size is a multiple of 16, or even better : 32.
one posibility for filterring is the "vertical reduction". it may ONLY work if: 1. the material is NOT interlaced (as in most films) and 2. the fields are NOT shifted (you'll have to be lucky on that one i guess) . i.e. when you're in 'preview' mode you can't see any interlacing artefacts so u can use 'vertical reduction' safely. what it does is resize (bicubic or billinear) vertically 1:2. from my experience the (bi)linear is good enough. so you'd like to set your resolution to (i.e.) 448x576, and enable vertical reduction for a final size of 448x288.
using vertical reduction has the most visible improvement when there are sharp edges (i.e. furnitures, text, computer generated images, subtitles, logos etc)
another option for filtering is the 'noise reduction' option. if you can set the slider from 3 to 6 'ticks' depending on the source material. it's a (adaptive i think) temporal smoother and helps quite a lot to the final quality.
both 'vertical reduction' and 'noise reduction' are controlled from the 'video' menu, and not from the 'filters' option.
example:
- source ('set custom format'): 448x576, yuy2 (horiz res may range 416 - 480)
- xvid, CBR. (CBR options: 100,1000,1000)
- bitrate (after using a bitrate calc) 660 to 1350 (upon num of cds, length)
- vertical reduction -(bi)linear
- noise reduction - '3 ticks'
- audio: mpeg2, 44.1khz, mono, 80kbps
all this in real time, with cpu at levels of 45 - 85/95
dropped frames: about 1 per minute.
on a humble duron 800, overcloced to 912 (with btwincap)
i use composite input, from a digital sat-decoder, that outputs pal. luckily for my, the conditions for 'vertical reductions' are met 95% of the films.
my results are at least vhs quality.
tip. for better information about the length of the clip, you can go to imdb.com. (don't forget to reduce 4% for if you're in a pal country)
bottom line, you can get pretty decent results in capturing directly to xvid/divx.
cheers
avi
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| SillKotscha |
| Posted: Jul 24 2002, 10:11 PM |
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smart Moderator
Group: Moderators
Posts: 146
Member No.: 6
Joined: 7-July 02
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thank you very much... appreciated!!
...sorry, I saw another mistake!!!
| QUOTE | This implies that there’re only two useful Capture resolutions: Full PAL (7**x576) and 1/2-pal (384x288). If it is your goal of converting the recorded file into the VCD format then record with a resolution of 352x288 . If a super video CD (SVCD) is to be provided, the resolution must be 480 x 576 (PAL) or 480 x 480 (NTSC).
· the advantage of 1/2-pal (384x288) Captures is obvious. |
WRONG!!
This implies that there’re only two useful Capture resolutions: Full PAL (7**x576) and 1/4-PAL (384x288). If it is your goal of converting the recorded file into the VCD format then record with a resolution of 352x288 . If a super video CD (SVCD) is to be provided, the resolution must be 480 x 576 (PAL) or 480 x 480 (NTSC).
· the advantage of 1/4-PAL (384x288) Captures is obvious...
correct!
any more comments?, feedback is welcome...
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"Have you ever noticed that whenever Microsoft calls something 'Smart', it's definitely a feature you want to disable!" |
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| avih |
| Posted: Jul 24 2002, 11:28 PM |
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- virtualdubCVR latest version is 1.49 and not 1.47. and it comes from that german site (virtualdub.net).
-even if you want to make vcd or svcd, it's better to capture at the maximun resolution u can (either limited by hd space, or cpu), and then resize (after de-interlacing if you need) to s/vcd resolution. this way u get a much better quality.
also, you can capture at 'strange' resolutions (i.e. 484x572) as long as your codec supports it (huffyuv/mjpeg) if you intend to resize afterwards to a 'decent' resolution. sometimes these kinds of resolution might avoid too many dropped frames when capturing from vhs vcr.
cheers
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| SillKotscha |
| Posted: Jul 24 2002, 11:45 PM |
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smart Moderator
Group: Moderators
Posts: 146
Member No.: 6
Joined: 7-July 02
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I didn't mention that VD-VCR 1.4.7 is the latest version... within this FAQ it's just a version where many settings are already done.
as everybody is able to read, it is not difficult to find this 'ominous' german-website to get the latest 'mod'-version...
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"Have you ever noticed that whenever Microsoft calls something 'Smart', it's definitely a feature you want to disable!" |
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| cofferscuffs |
| Posted: Aug 29 2002, 02:28 PM |
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Unregistered
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http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&p...5739#post165739
please update your quote on me. thanks for quoting me too, without you (and other places) doing this, i dont think this would of come about. |
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| SillKotscha |
| Posted: Aug 31 2002, 09:51 PM |
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smart Moderator
Group: Moderators
Posts: 146
Member No.: 6
Joined: 7-July 02
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done and thanks for reminding me ...
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"Have you ever noticed that whenever Microsoft calls something 'Smart', it's definitely a feature you want to disable!" |
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| Morsa |
| Posted: Nov 19 2002, 07:29 AM |
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Moderator of the Vdub support board
Group: Moderators
Posts: 640
Member No.: 246
Joined: 9-September 02
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I guess is time to unify all this posts with its corrections into a new clean faq.
Isn't it nice?? |
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| fccHandler |
| Posted: Nov 23 2002, 02:58 AM |
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Administrator n00b
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Joined: 13-September 02
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One more helpful link, to the official capture FAQ:
VirtualDub documentation: Capture
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May the FOURCC be with you... |
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| SillKotscha |
 Posted: Nov 25 2002, 05:35 PM |
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smart Moderator
Group: Moderators
Posts: 146
Member No.: 6
Joined: 7-July 02
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| QUOTE (Morsa @ Nov 19 2002, 09:29 AM) | I guess is time to unify all this posts with its corrections into a new clean faq.
Isn't it nice?? |
BaronVlad and Ookami wrote a very, very good CaptureFAQ (and yes - me as well , but only on some parts).
This FAQ is located @ doom9's capture section - I guess everyone knows how to find it  .
With permission of BaronVlad, Ookami and of course doom9 I think it would be a very good idea to integrate this faq here as well - a straight link wouldn't be a good idea.
BaronVlad can edit this faq @doom9.org and therefore is the one who can easily merge this faq in here - it would be a very good replacement for this one (as it is "based" on it  )...
for all the german readers: as you may know, there is a german mirror for doom9.org and there you will find the german original of the capture faq (guess where, right - in the capture section  )
cheers Sill
P.S.: guess I'm back 
edit: wow, so many smilies 
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"Have you ever noticed that whenever Microsoft calls something 'Smart', it's definitely a feature you want to disable!" |
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| BaronVlad |
| Posted: Nov 25 2002, 07:05 PM |
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Terrorhörnchen
Group: Moderators
Posts: 335
Member No.: 28
Joined: 12-July 02
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Hmmm...
I knew that this day would come. 
Which FAQ is based on which one ? The Capture FAQ here is the translation of the one in the German doom9 board with some parts of Mattheos FAQ @reloadworld, we merged the old one of Ookami @doom9.org with a translation of the german one. After having finished the English one @doom9.org, we translated again into German for doom9.de. Complicated ???!!
I think we have to merge the English one @doom9 with the XVid part of avih here and then put it here and @doom9 and translate it into German again. 
But for all these "operations" I have to talk to doom9, Christian, Ookami, avih and Sill of course to ask for permission.
I will do so, when I get the time for it. as it can take some time, please merge it in your brain 
Here they are:
The English one: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&t...&threadid=32575
The German one: http://forum.doom9.de/viewtopic.php?t=166
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Hochachtungsvoll
BaronVlad
Deutsch >> Capture FAQ - Capture Guide
Englisch >> Capture FAQ - Capture Guide |
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| gordogato |
| Posted: Dec 6 2002, 04:23 PM |
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Unregistered
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SillKotcha & forum-
Is there any readme file on how to install the [wdm-vfw-wrapper] file? Not quite sure how the "wrapper" works, do i point it to a driver? do i place it somewhere???
Is the [vfwupd.exe] update required and is there a readme file for that?
Just got an ATI 8500 Radeon card and am unable to capture using Vdub. I was able to use the card by itself to capture a clip and then playback/scrub through it in Vdub. I guess I am looking for any documentation available or notes from your experience on using Vdub with this card. Running Win2K. Any ideas?
Is this wrapper update required as it seems to be with the other cards that i read about in your forum??? Hoping to use Virtual dub to capture with... maybe I just capture using the card alone...testing testing testing...not sure.
thanks,
gordo.
--------below from Sillkotcha FAQ------------
The recording using WIN2K/XP with WDM drivers can but must not be possible. If VirtualDub is used for the recording, then think of using the following programs, when it comes to this probable error messages (Error 418: NO capture DEVICES installed):
- vfwupd.exe
- dx80bda.exe
- wdm-vfw-wrapper
But there is no warranty. Additional problem: with the Wrapper the processor load and thus the number of dropped Frames can be high :blink: |
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| muf |
| Posted: Dec 12 2002, 08:46 PM |
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MCF team member
Group: Moderators
Posts: 179
Member No.: 46
Joined: 21-July 02
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Capturing at half (or quarter, depends on how you see it) resolution causes pixel jags. Downscaling with bilinear filtering makes the picture look softer, the pixel positions are more precise (when you interpolate things afterwards, like in full screen mode, this becomes much more obvious), and it should be a bit more compressible.
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| smok3 |
| Posted: Apr 6 2003, 08:21 PM |
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Unregistered
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| QUOTE (muf @ Dec 12 2002, 02:46 PM) | | Capturing at half (or quarter, depends on how you see it) resolution causes pixel jags. Downscaling with bilinear filtering makes the picture look softer, the pixel positions are more precise (when you interpolate things afterwards, like in full screen mode, this becomes much more obvious), and it should be a bit more compressible. |
my 2 cents:
when capturing 4:3 into mjpeg it is usually better to cap into 1/4 of fullres, especialy when you plan to do no resizing, simply becouse more mjpeg bits will get used for such lowres and recompressing to divx will be easier imho. (that again depends on the signal noise, if you get a really clear pic then use fullres), on matrox etv450 there is also mpeg2 (with the provided software) option and 1/2 fullres which does look almost decent after being transcoded into divx. (oh, and do check the exelent shareware 'avi io' capturer) |
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| BaronVlad |
| Posted: Apr 6 2003, 08:30 PM |
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Terrorhörnchen
Group: Moderators
Posts: 335
Member No.: 28
Joined: 12-July 02
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An English Version of my capture Guide is online now:
http://www.doom9.org/capture/start.html
Thanks to doom9, killingspree and Donald Graft
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Hochachtungsvoll
BaronVlad
Deutsch >> Capture FAQ - Capture Guide
Englisch >> Capture FAQ - Capture Guide |
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