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| hayamiya |
| Posted: Sep 12 2010, 11:15 PM |
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[sorry if this message doesn't belong to this forum but I was doubtful of 3 sub categories to post to so better here in General]
Hi, there was a lot of time since my last virtualdub "hard" editing and I didn't discovered a fault on one of my useful filter, the Logo by Donald Graft (from neuron2.net).
Testing, I found that this filter stopped to work from 1.9.x versions of virtualdub, or, in other words, stopped to work after 1.8.8 version of virtualdub in a certain case.
Beyond requesting a fix that I don't know if this could be considered as a bug, I would like to know why? I didn't find any special thing in the release notes of 1.9.4 (the first stopped working), but surely is beyond my knowledge, because I hope it can be fixed via configurations or something.
If not, is this a new needed feature of virtualdub?
It's a shame I can't use this filter anymore. I'm not of those who tend to update software (if it's not broken, don't fix), but Virtualdub seemed to be harmless on each update. But after this maybe I'll have to switch back to 1.8.8  because I still have to test, but I feel some other filters, similar to logo ones, stopped to work too :S
For those that could give further help, the problem is that you can't use the filter abilities to position logos from determined frames (position, length, etc) if you are editing a video without processing, this is a video made from an image and copies of it, so you fill a video with the same frame via "copy&paste".
If you use a real image sequence (0000-000x) the problem doesn't exist.
This didn't happen with 1.8.8 version and below.
Any help or advise is appreciated. |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Sep 13 2010, 12:09 AM |
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Are you using the latest version of the filter?
Version 1.7 beta 2
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| hayamiya |
| Posted: Sep 13 2010, 01:36 PM |
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| QUOTE (dloneranger @ Sep 13 2010, 01:09 AM) | Are you using the latest version of the filter?
Version 1.7 beta 2 |
Of course. I wouldn't come to ask if not 
I was testing with other filter, and, as I said, similar filters (with positioning features) have the same problem. I tested this time with BackChange latest version too (even it's old (2004)) and the same problem.
So, something is happening with VirtualDub that the frames generated via copy&pasted aren't considered as real frames since 1.9.4 version. Only if they are real images they are considered as frames.
In other words, looks like VirtualDub can't attach a filter to a frame generated via copy&paste because it's not a frame for it.
Should I post it as a bug? What do you think? |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Sep 13 2010, 01:51 PM |
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| QUOTE (hayamiya @ Sep 13 2010, 02:36 PM) | Of course. I wouldn't come to ask if not
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 Actually, it makes a nice change
I've posted a bug report
[edit]
What's happening is that inside the filter it's getting the frame numbers out of sequence, to make the final video
eg
If I copy frames 100 to 101 and paste them at frame 2
Jump to frame 0, and then step forward frame by frame
The filter gets the frames 0,1,2,100,101,3,4
The filter doesn't know that the frames are out of order, and I can't see a 'final frame number' in the information it gets that would be needed
That could be called a bug, a design decision, or a filters bad assumption that the frames go 0,1,2,3,4,etc
At the moment, the only way around it is to do the edits and logo as separate operations
(Do edits, save it losslessly, load that in and do logo)
[edit2]
There's a section in the filter sdk "Creating time-varying filters" that describes how to do this, but the information seems to be incorrect
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| hayamiya |
| Posted: Sep 13 2010, 05:19 PM |
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| QUOTE | | I've posted a bug report |
Ok, anywhere to track? (sf.net maybe? I'll check now) EDIT: I see is in the other forum 
About what you say, I see. If it is a faulty of the filters why is not working now?
But to be clear, usually, I don't do things as mix frames as you tell. I create an image, I load to virtualdub as a frame to use it as a background, and I copy and paste X times to duplicate it (for example, to have 100 frames, 5 seconds at 20fps) and then, over that background start "playing" with logo filter or BackChange and similar ones. As you see, I don't mix frames, I just create them via copy&paste and in order (original 0, copy 1, copy 2, copy 3, copy 4), what worked perfectly in previous versions.
I know a method could be save that without compression and then edit but what if I had to do that for, for example, a 120-300 seconds at 30fps and with a high resolution? and why a new step when previously worked?
Anyway, thanks to report, let's see if get fixed or I have to change my work flow when editing :/ |
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| hayamiya |
| Posted: Sep 15 2010, 12:54 AM |
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So... after reading phaeron answer and your not answered question... and his blog entry telling changes about filter handling, there is no light about a change on this.
I think I'll change back to 1.8.8 when needed, then, even if I lose performance. |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Sep 15 2010, 01:16 AM |
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Sometimes it takes a while for replies
(especially as I asked for clarification, just after phaeron had gone offline)
But at the moment it looks like the changes don't give a filter a way to know the final frame number, as the edits are done after the filters
The documentation is lagging behind a bit, but this is a hobby project, and one of the better ones at that, so I'm not going to grumble 
It'd be nice to have the frame numbers back, but, did many filters use it, and is the time spent reworking the code to supply the information better used elsewhere?
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Sep 15 2010, 08:21 PM |
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Just a thought, but couldn't you use the curve editor to get the logo appearing where/when you want ?
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| hayamiya |
| Posted: Sep 16 2010, 01:28 AM |
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| QUOTE (dloneranger @ Sep 15 2010, 09:21 PM) | | Just a thought, but couldn't you use the curve editor to get the logo appearing where/when you want ? |
Simply, it doesn't work. Maybe the problem is still with the edited timeline :-?
In the other hand, I don't know what happens to my curve I can't see all the frames:
I never used before, but I think its behavior is not correct (at least following help file).
EDIT: few more tests and, yes, it's because the timeline "is not real". With a "real" video or with a "real" image sequence, the curve editor works. |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Sep 16 2010, 02:11 AM |
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Hmmm, yeah, the curve editor and blends don't work correctly if you paste frames
Works fine if you're just deleting a section, but pasting also uses the original (from where you copied) frames curve levels
I've got a video of the curve editor in use with deleted sections, if that's any use to you (5Mb)
http://rapidshare.com/files/419310920/Curve.avi.html
It's all perfectly logical, when you see how it works, but I think I'd use the old version for edits as well. This is, ummm, kind of counter intuitive in practice
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| hayamiya |
| Posted: Sep 16 2010, 03:24 AM |
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Yep, nice video explaining it, but even if we (you and me) are making tests with logo, others don't work either [when we are with edited timelines], just to leave it clear for those coming for answers
Quite disturbing, anyway  |
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| rjisinspired |
| Posted: Sep 16 2010, 05:56 AM |
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What psychs me out is the jumping and cutting off the visual curve region. Where you see the edit curve then you jump away from a frame forward or backward one frame and poof it's gone, lol.
I have found out that this doesn't only occur if I cut/edit while doing the blending transforms. I have noticed this quirk to happen when I don't even cut the video in any spot. My last project "greenhouse" I ran into this issue and it really surprised me since I use to experience these quirks if I edited out certain pieces of a video while doing blending tasks but apparently, for me, it can happen at any time and when it does it seems to begin 1/3rd of the way into a video or halfway.
I once got fed up and erased all of my transforms/envelopes in the curve editor and redid them all over again because I was getting this visual quirk in many locations in a video and the video was not cut/edited. I do my cuts in Vegas and then put the lossless AVI through Vdub to do any curve editing tasks.
My next project, and if this quirk happens again, I will save the VCF file and back it up while creating a new settings file for when I need to correct or redo things again to show that no edits/cuts were made. Maybe something could be seen in those settings files? |
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| hayamiya |
| Posted: Sep 16 2010, 09:42 PM |
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Mmmmmmm
I entered now to the Heri' S Virtualdub For Absolute Beginners topic just because I was bored and I found no new answers and I said... yes, why not frameserving.... and it works.
Maybe the simplest is the best  and maybe the simplest is the hardest to think of
At least, with the frameserving, I don't have to create a new huge uncompressed video for a few filtering edits
This doesn't solve the problem with the rest of the edits, just mines with a timeline filled with copies of a frame, or yes, if you think about it, but, this, one or other method (copies or edits), requires to do not edit after frameserve it, what I don't know at which level can be this possible in certain scenarios... |
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| MaxS |
| Posted: Sep 17 2010, 05:33 AM |
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Just in case: logo filter in my mod supports transparent PNGs and animated PNGs:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/vdubapngmod/ |
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