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| Unofficial VirtualDub Support Forums > Advanced Video Processing > Smart Rendering ... When Is It Possible? |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 27 2009, 12:18 PM |
| 27Jan2009 Greetings. I have yet to find an instance where I could use Smart Rendering. Could/Would someone clarify exactly when one could use Smart Rendering? Any replies/insights appreciated. Thank you. Regards, AEN Æ |
| Posted by: Placio74 Jan 27 2009, 12:44 PM |
| - Full processing mode - Smart rendering - Compression - select same codec that was encoded video Smart rendering is useful if don't want re-encode entire video, but only required part. For example... - if want to cut video outside keyframes - only certain frames are re-encoded - if want to apply a some filter on fragment (using Curve editor), but don't want re-encode rest |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 9 2011, 07:33 PM | ||
| 9Jan2011 Greetings. I recently found some (unofficial/bootleg/not copyrighted) Grateful Dead concert videos at YouTube. Usually each song is a separate video. For songs in the first set, that is irrelevant; but second set songs usually flow right into the next song. Each song as a separate video is a problem with such second set songs because the songs are not cut well. A song/video ends with the beginning of the next song - which begins with part of the end of the previous song. The software I use for downloading gives 3 or 4 options - usually 2 or 3 flv options (low, medium or high quality) and one high quality mp4 option. My first question concerns these options. Is flv (at any/which quality?) always better than the mp4 option? YouTube uses flash, so it seems to me downloading flv would be better than mp4 - less transcoding video quality loss? I can open individual flv files in VDub with the DirectShow plugin and also the entire set as one file by stringing together each video in an avs file; however, VDub will not properly playback these flv files. CPU usage goes to 100% and corrupts the playback. My second question: are there any VDub or Dshow settings I could tweak, so VDub would playback these flv files? I cannot edit out the second set song redundancies before having VDub generate an avi file because VDub will not properly playback the flv/avs inputs. I cannot pick frames to edit out. I discovered Avidemux SmartCopy and then realized that VDub Smart Rendering was the same thing. I can edit the avi output to remove the second set song redundancies and save using Smart Rendering (editing outside keyframes). I encode originally using DivX multipass. When I use Smart Rendering, how should I set compression?
Do I choose the same codec with multipass or 1-pass? Since VDub will only re-encode a few of the frames, could/should I choose a higher bitrate to compensate for quality loss? |
| Posted by: ale5000 Jan 10 2011, 04:26 AM | ||
For .flv files you get better results with the FLV input plugin ( http://fcchandler.home.comcast.net/~fcchandler/Plugins/FLV/index.html ) compared to the DirectShow plugin. To merge files, you can "Direct stream copy" all of them (separately) to .avi and then you can merge them with File => "Append AVI segment...". |
| Posted by: Placio74 Jan 10 2011, 10:13 AM | ||||||
Adobe Flash Player supports both, FLV and MP4. Use MediaInfo and compare video files properties. YouTube uses MP4 format for HD vids and old HQ. 'New' HQ ('format' 35) may be of better quality (possible higher bitrate and resolution) than old HQ ('format' 18).
Multi-pass mode must be disabled (for Smart rendering mode). Look at help file (.chm in VD folder) and read about Smart rendering.
Default setting should be sufficient. You can try with 'small' target quantizer (quality-based mode) - 4 or 2. |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 10 2011, 12:05 PM | ||
| 10Jan2011 Greetings. Thanks for the replies. I have/had already compared mp4 vs flv downloads with MediaInfo. My question about transcoding video quality loss remains. The GD YouTube videos are not HD. It seems to me a transcoded download with high quality specs might be lower quality than a non-transcoded download with lower quality specs ... My guess is that the mp4 download files are transcoded and the flv files are not ...??? I already have/had the FLV input plugin but always receive the error message "... has no video stream". According to the following posting here» http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/309827-VirtualDub-Won-t-read-FLV-Files
VDub can Direct Stream Copy flv to avi with no quality loss? Maybe that would be a solution ... if I could play the avi videos in VDub and edit out the song redundancies. I'm not sure about this aac audio yet ... Any replies/insights appreciated. Thank you. Regards, AEN Æ |
| Posted by: Placio74 Jan 10 2011, 01:24 PM | ||||||
Both are transcoded (just with other parameters). When upload to YouTube, videos are always transcoded.
Try new fccHandler's plugin (is different than older plugin created by Moitah), has indicated ale5000. New plugin support FLV's with AVC/AAC. Can't transcode AAC audio (there is no ACM codec for AAC audio), however can copy (in Direct stream mode). Again... currently there are two different FLV input plugins.
Of course. |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 10 2011, 03:01 PM | ||
| 10Jan2011 Just a quick, intermediate posting. This flv editing is annoying me, but I don't want to make annoying posts. Anyway, the fccH flv plugin does open these YT flv downloads (THANK YOU), but VDub gives the following message when I try playback»
YT transcodes files uploaded to YT - but to what format/specs I do not know. My point/question is - can one pick a download format that will not require another round of transcoding? |
| Posted by: Placio74 Jan 10 2011, 03:30 PM | ||||||||
Playback (as well as transcoding) AAC audio is not possible - ACM codec for AAC is required, but there is no such (does not exist).
Irrelevant. ffdshow it's only video and audio DirectShow filters/decoders and VfW codec. fccHandler's FLV plugin uses ACM codecs for audio decoding (such as VirtualDub) - ffdshow not contain ACM codec.
Probably some issue with DirectShow filters. What is installed OS and used DS filters for FLV (splitter and decoders)?
Unlikely (from YT are only available FLV, MP4 and WebM). BTW What if... chanage container from FLV (if contain AVC/AAC) to MP4? |
| Posted by: ale5000 Jan 10 2011, 04:55 PM |
| To use the preview set Audio => "No audio", this will make the preview of the video working. Make sure to re-enable the audio (with Audio => Source audio => Stream 1) before using "Save as AVI...". |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 10 2011, 08:52 PM |
| 10Jan2011 Greetings. I was already aware I could disable the audio, but that doesn't do me any good when trying to edit out song redundancies... I can play mp4 & flv in a normal video player with no CPU usage problems. As stated previously, I cannot play flv in VDub - no matter which plugin for flv nor when I use an avs file. I can open mp4 into VDub with the DShow plugin AND play the mp4 file in VDub with no CPU usage problem BUT cannot play mp4 files in VDub when I use an avs file (which doesn't do me any good when trying to edit out song redundancies...). I have no avs playback problems with mpg/mpeg/avi/wmv ... I use VDub on two XPsp3 laptops (1 XPP & 1 XPH). I do not have XPH with me at the moment. FLV in ffdshow is libavcodec. Splitter is flvSplitter 20090428 (1.0.0.5 I thnik ...) For now my routine is 1) string together Set I / Set II flv files in an avs file & resize; maybe also crop ... 2) open the avs into VDubMod & export the audio track; 3) process audio/edit the audio track as necessary; 4) do DivX multipass in VDub 1.9.x with the avs & processed audio track; 5) do necessary edits & Smart Rendering; 6) Append the Set II & encore file to the Set I file ... |
| Posted by: ale5000 Jan 10 2011, 10:17 PM |
| Until someone create an ACM codec for AAC you can't convert or play the aac audio in VirtualDub, so the only solution is extract audio, process in a different application then re-add it throgh Audio menu => Audio from other file |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 11 2011, 10:20 AM | ||
11Jan2011
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| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 24 2011, 06:48 PM | ||
including an MediaInfo alternative, which I have found gives some spec info the MI normally does give but does not seem to give on YT flv downloads (e.g., video bitrate) The DPMI gui sucks ... but might be of use in some cases. I tried to play in TMPEGenc & MPC/MPCHC avs files of linked flv or mp4 files - to no avail. The same 100% CPU usage problem occurs; however, MPC/HC does play the avs file audio smoothly ... Sometimes one of the GD concerts at YT is missing a song from the concert. The audio is generally available elsewhere on the web. How do I create a video of say still images with the audio of the missing track to plug the gap? |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 30 2011, 03:39 PM | ||
| 30Jan2011 Greetings.
Sometimes one of the GD concerts at YT is missing a song from the concert. The audio is generally available elsewhere on the web. How do I create a video of say still images with the audio of the missing track to plug the gap? |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jul 30 2011, 03:27 PM | ||||
Dirk Paehl has a new MediaInfo release with a MUCH better GUI ... |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 6 2012, 11:26 PM | ||||||||
7January2012
I can download YT flv vids with dimensions that I prefer. I can DirectStreamCopy the video to avi. I always customize/enhance the audio track.
Many/Most of these YT downloads (now) come down at rather low bitrate. A DSC avi output of low bitrate flv file will not only be a smaller size than a full re-dub at a higher bitrate but also a better quality (right?) I mean, there is NO WAY to redub a video and have the output be better than the input ... right?
These YT downloads come down @ 29.970. When I did/do full redubbing, I change the output frame rate to 23.976. I haven't found a way to change the frame rate of the output file. When I DSC flv to avi and change the frame rate, the output is "jerky" ... like lots of frames were dropped. It would be great to hear if anyone knows of a solution/work-around ... |
| Posted by: Placio74 Jan 7 2012, 07:40 PM | ||||||
http://home.comcast.net/~fcchandler/AACACM/index.html is currently available. We can play and convert AAC audio in VirtualDub. Also is possible to extract AAC audio (may be necessary to enable Add an ADTS header to each AAC frame option (in plugin options) when import video file).
Sometimes it is possible to obtain a relatively 'better' output video - using some postprocessing filters, for example http://compression.ru/video/deblocking/smartdeblocking_en.html filter. |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 8 2012, 09:28 AM | ||||
I installed the 32bit version. ViDub now plays aac in flv, but it sounds like the chipmunks. Export works, but the wav output is about half the duration of the video & sounds like the chipmunks. I'm wondering what the complications are? Where are "PLUGIN OPTIONS"?
could improve the video in some ways, but every re-dub is "lossy" .... no matter what the bitrate is. Right? (I'll have to check out the MSU ...) A DSC output of a source video @ 300 will be better quality (in general) than a re-dub ... no matter how much higher the new bitrate is ... |
| Posted by: ale5000 Jan 8 2012, 12:46 PM | ||
Post a sample of a flv file where the audio doesn't work correctly in VirtualDub. But first check if you have an updated version of the FLV input plugin. |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 8 2012, 03:17 PM | ||
| 8January2012 OK, not having FLV v2.0 seems to have been the problem. THANX! Is there some/place/way to register to be notified of fcchandler updates? This will be the 2nd time that I have put aviDemux into use & then shortly thereafter removed it ... Just a few notes» ViDub with FLV v2.0 took about 3 minutes to spit out a wav file that took aviD 20+ minutes to spit out ... ViDub wav file: duration~02:35:38.767 size~896521632 aviD wav file: duration~02:35:38.840 size~896528684 flv file: (audio) duration~02:35:38.857
I'm also (still) wondering why I keep finding TT_VTX.log files in my ViDub & VDM directories on 1 (& only 1) of my XP laptops ... I started a videohelp.com thread http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/338458-TT_VTX-log-generation previously because at the time I had my TTTVRC.exe remote control exe running 24 hours a day. I thought the TTTVRC.exe was dumping those files, but now I never have TTTVRC.exe running and somehow something is (still) dumping those files to my ViDub & VDM directories on 1 (& only 1) of my XP laptops ... (The "http://" button is not working for me. In fact only the "QUOTE" & "CODE" buttons are working for me.) |
| Posted by: Placio74 Jan 8 2012, 07:13 PM | ||||
Select Ask for extended options after this dialog option when opening a audio/video file. Besides DirectShow import driver, which are options in file information window.
Transcoding using a lossy codec - technically yes. However (sometime), decrease quality may not be noticeable (by human eye). |
| Posted by: Mr Hangman Jan 13 2012, 02:27 PM |
| I'm having trouble using the smart rendering feature. Several problems are frustrating me and I could use some help. I'm getting the error: "Cannot initialize smart rendering: No video codec is selected for compression." I'm aware that the same codec as the source file must be selected, but I am still unable to resolve the error. Smart rendering is a fantastic feature and I'm thrilled to see VirtualDub has it, but it sure seems to be making it as hard to use as possible. First of all, it looks to me to be a poor error message. I do have a video codec selected, but apparently not one it's happy with. If I click Video->Compression and select anything other than "[Uncompressed RGB/YCbCr]" and press OK, then I've selected a codec for compression. Irritating. The documentation says that certain codecs cannot be smart-rendered. Annoying me once again, it does not say which ones. Can it do H264? If the codec cannot be smart-rendered, what is VirtualDub's error message? I hope it's not the same inaccurate message I'm already getting. And if only a matching codec works, shouldn't one be automatically selected? Why should I have to dig up the matching one? Some say to check the source file's codec in File->File Information, but the codec is not among the information displayed. For some codecs, it says what the decompressor is, from which the codec can be inferred, but they're not the same thing. Other codecs don't even display that. How can I be sure if I selected the right one or not? Specifically I'm trying to smart cut an H264 encoded video. In the compression dialog, I select fddshow, then click Configure to select H.264. I don't understand why there are tabs for both the Encoder and Decoder. This is the compression dialog, aren't I here to select the Encoder? Anyway, I choose H.264 on both but the error does not go away. I also tried an MPEG-1 file and had the same problems. Thanks in advance for any help. |
| Posted by: Placio74 Jan 15 2012, 06:12 PM | ||||||||
Odd... "Cannot initialize smart rendering: No video codec is selected for compression." Should be displayed if you do not select a specific codec - so only with uncompressed. "Cannot initialize smart rendering: The selected video codec is able to compress the source video, but cannot match the same compressed format." This should be displayed if selected codec is not compatible. Usually if video format is different, but also if codec can not write same FourCC code (DivX write only DX50 - when Xvid can write XVID, DIVX, DX50 and MP4V).
With x264vfw codec (enabled VirtualDub Hack option may be needed), I think so (worked when I checked).
There is no specific message for that - there is no 'detection' for this.
Same? VirtualDub can't save MPEG-1 to AVI without re-encoding. When smart rendering is used, only a necessary part of the video is transcoded and rest and rest just copied (and VirtualDub can't do this for MPEG-1 and MPEG-2). |
| Posted by: ale5000 Jan 15 2012, 06:18 PM | ||||
Maybe it can work if MPEG-1/2 video is inside mkv or mp4/mov but I haven't tried. |
| Posted by: Placio74 Jan 15 2012, 07:20 PM | ||
Possible for AVI and MKV with MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 video - ffdshow VfW is required for decoding and encoding (also correct FourCC). So (slightly different)... VirtualDub can't save MPEG-1 to AVI without re-encoding when it's imported from MPEG-ES/PS (and when internal decoder is used). |
| Posted by: ale5000 Jan 15 2012, 07:27 PM | ||
It can be remuxed to mkv with MKVToolnix before opening it in VirtualDub. |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 16 2012, 08:49 AM | ||||||
I have found (initially) that using MSUSD makes an output bitrate of 333 with the DivX codec set to quality 2 about equal to an output bitrate of 507 with the DivX codec set to quality 7. So, the processing is faster (q2 v q7) and the output smaller (333 v 507). The MSUSD filter can be set/used via aviSynth. It seems MSUSD is crashing my ViDub 1.9.11.
but then every time I close ViDub, the ViDub "Oops crash/error" popups. The first time I tried to do a batch multipass dub, ViDub crashed after completing the first pass. I am wondering what is going on ... |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 17 2012, 08:18 AM | ||
| 17January2012 1) If I use that avs script "manually" (not batch) - I load the avs script into ViDub; I load a vcf file to edit out the dead air & set the audio encoding; I set ViDub to No Audio; I set the DivX codec to multipass/1stPass @ 333q2; I edit the file down to a 2 minute test sample; I do "Save as AVI". ViDub does the dub fine. I then add the external wav file; I set the DivX codec to multipass/nthPass @ 333q2; I do "Save as AVI"; ViDub does the dub fine. When I then EXIT from ViDub, the Oops crash/error popup appears. 2) If I use that avs script in a multipass batch - the Oops crash/error popup appears when the 2nd pass starts. 3) If I use that avs script in a MODIFIED multipass batch - I create/use 2 different avs scripts; The avs for the first pass is»
The avs for the 2nd/nth pass is from the previous post. ViDub does the batched 1st pass fine; ViDub completes the batched 2nd/nth pass fine & then immediately crashes with the Oops popup ... So I can now at least batch complete 1 video at a time ... I am wondering what is going on ... |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 17 2012, 04:39 PM |
| 17January2012 2 related/irrelevant items: 1) When I do multipass dubbing of avs scripts, I have ViDub set to "Fast recompress", but using filters requires "Full processing mode". What should/must the setting be when using the MSUSD filter in an avs script? 2) Color Depth I have no idea what these settings should be under normal circumstances. When not doing Fast recompress, I have been using Autoselect Decompression & 4:2:2 YCbCr (YUY2) Output format (because I once read somewhere that YUY2 would give the smallest output ...) What should/must the settings be when using the MSUSD filter in an avs script (with Full processing mode)? The MSUSD script says "ConvertToRGB32", so I would guess maybe both De/compress settings should be 32bit RGB (888)? ViDub crashes the same regardless of how I make the above settings ... |
| Posted by: Mr Hangman Jan 18 2012, 05:39 PM |
| I realized the issue might have been the audio, but even after remembering to check "No Audio" I am still unable to get past the "No video codec is selected" error. That's on an H264 file, now using the recommended x264vfw codec. |
| Posted by: AEN007 Jan 26 2012, 03:57 PM |
| 26January2012 any feedback/response regarding my previous MSUSD/avs/FastRe/FullProc/crash posts? |
| Posted by: AEN007 Feb 1 2012, 09:05 AM | ||||
| 1February2012 Greetings. I have seem to have stumbled upon the source/cause of the MSUSD/avs crashes. I hope ViDub dev might/will find a fix. So far I have not been able to find a work-around solution. Yesterday I did/dubbed a YT flv file. This YT flv file is not one of those 480x? files. For the time being I have abandoned those & the 320x240 files I would DSC IF the source quality was not unacceptable, which I find it to be. Anyway, I am using the YT flv 640x480 files. These seem to be the highest quality sources to redub. Almost all of them have 29.970 fps; however, yesterday one of them had 23.976. I (now) always set ViDub to convert the fps to 23.976 - even if the source is already @ 23.976 ... see the following»
Anyway, ViDub did NOT crash upon completing a modified batch for this 23.976fps file. It seems that setting ViDub to convert the fps is causing these MSUSD/avs crashes. Settting ViDub to convert from 23.976 to 23.976 did not cause an MSUSD/avs crash. ViDub does not end with an MSUSD/avs crash if I do not set ViDub to convert from 29.970 or 25 to 23.976. ViDub does end with an MSUSD/avs crash when I use aviSynth AssumeFPS or ConverFPS - whether or not I also set ViDub to Process all frames or to convert ... I hope ViDub dev might/will find a fix. I'll be trying to find a work around. Any helpful replies/insights appreciated. Thank you. Regards. AEN Æ |
| Posted by: AEN007 Feb 1 2012, 01:32 PM |
| 1February2012 Greetings. I emailed MSU about this avs/MSU/fps issue. Then I found the/ir Deblocking plugin @ their website. This MSUDeB plugin does NOT cause these avs/MSU/fps crashes, so ... My other "open" items in this thread remain. What is the best/proper procedure for using (Smart) Deblocking with avs? Is it best to do the modified batch anyway? e.g., not load/use the MSU plugin until the final/nth pass by using separate avs scripts? What about Fast recompress versus Full processing? This might only be relevant to the passes in a modified batch that do not load/use the MSU plugin. It seems (based on the fps @ which ViDub runs) that loading/using the MSU plugin makes ViDub automatically run in FullP ... (I also emailed MSU about the MSUDeB plugin results ...) |
| Posted by: AEN007 Mar 18 2012, 01:30 AM | ||
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