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| Shehasmoxy |
| Posted: Dec 21 2013, 10:45 PM |
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This might sound like an odd question, but when is the best time to compress a video file?
I am using virtual dub with the xvid MPED-4 compression codec. Do I compress when I capture, or when I am saving my AVI file after I have used the necessary filters and done all of my editing?
I am going to be storing the files on my backup hard drive, so I do need to compress them due to their original size (I have a large external hard drive, but will be backing up my entire home video library). The tapes will be discarded after I transfer them to my computer, and the resulting AVI files will eventually be burned to DVD.
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Dec 21 2013, 11:33 PM |
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Best time is at the end for lossy compressors like x264, xvid etc
Each time you recompress with a lossy codec there's a small but cumulative degradation - like copying a copy of vhs tapes
Stick with a lossless codec until the end if you have the space
Editing's faster and no degradation
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| -vdub- |
| Posted: Dec 22 2013, 07:00 PM |
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Depends also on how important the video is to you. If important you could capture to try achieve a 1:1 exact copy (if possible). Store the captured video to BluRay BDXL 250gb (greater) optical medium if need to keep long term
When capture better always to think video will need further work. Capture video lossless means no video degrade with further video editing using a lossless intermediate file. Capture with Largarith http://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html which is a lossless video encoder compressor. Audio also is lossless with pcm audio capture. Play through the whole video after capture to review the capture with a video player
If old tv programs (general ones) no worry they will all be repeated again or on dvd or other medium over time. Except daily content such as news, weather and other such programming. For general tv capture best you can using Largarith with audio set Full Processing mode which will be pcm audio
When editing the video and with filters keep saving video using Largarith and direct copy the audio for maintaining best quality. When all editing has been done then it is ok to compress the final video with x264, x265 or newer encoders. Audio for final compression could be aac although virtualdub cannot compress to aac unless compress to aac using external encoders. The video outer container to store these video/audio formats in such as x264/aac maybe the one you prefer or one that you know plays best on home hardware video player such as avi, mkv, mp4 etc
For External Encoders use search the Virtualdub forum for External Encoders most of the posts will be posted here http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?s=&act=SF&f=3 Look for scripts you can load to Virtualdub External Encoders to encode with for your final compressed video |
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| Shehasmoxy |
| Posted: Dec 22 2013, 09:35 PM |
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I think I am going to try Largarith as I cannot get huffyuv to work. I do have Xvid installed, is there any reason that Largarith would be better than Xvid?
I am transferring my VHS tapes to my computer, saving a compressed backup on my hard drive, and burning them onto DVDs so I can discard my VHS tapes.
My tapes of course are typical VHS tapes, they are never going to look great, but I would like to capture them and compress them the best way so that I can store them and make DVD copies for family.
If anyone has any recommendations for VHS filters that would be great too. Currently I am just using the one that came with the filter pack i installed with virtualdub. To be honest I don't know if the filter helps that much though..some of my VHS footage is pretty grainy and old (think 1980s). |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Dec 22 2013, 10:19 PM |
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Lagarith's for use instead of Huffy - they're both lossless codecs
For vhs have a look here
http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act...f=2&t=22067&hl=
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Windows7/8 Codec Chooser
All FccHandlers Stuff inc. Installers for acm codecs AAC, AC3, LameMp3 |
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| raffriff42 |
| Posted: Dec 22 2013, 10:33 PM |
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>If anyone has any recommendations for VHS filters that would be great too.
Take a look at this guide: Analogue Capture Guide v4 (doom9.org)
Especially section 7.1: Processing the video using VirtualDub
It's a little old, but it's well written - giving you a good overview. |
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| Shehasmoxy |
| Posted: Dec 23 2013, 02:40 AM |
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Thanks. I saved the file using flaxen VHS filter. I am going to try to compress the file using Lagarith to save to my computer. I am searching for documentation now, but does Lagarith require you compress the audio simultaneously? I have it chosen as the compression, and both audio and video are set to Full processing mode.
Here I thought this project would be a walk in a park. Almost wish my DVD/VHS combo unit didn't kick the bucket..I originally started backing up files that way...but I was unhappy with the format it saved to. |
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| raffriff42 |
| Posted: Dec 23 2013, 04:52 AM |
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Walk in a park, it isn't  Don't compress the audio yet.
To compress your Lagarith "intermediates" (as they are called), I would use a dedicated compression program for maximum ease of use - specifically, Handbrake. Select the Normal Profile and you should get good results. If you have another personal preference, use that. |
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| Shehasmoxy |
 Posted: Jan 6 2014, 10:26 PM |
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Ok so I thought I had it figured out with all my extensive reading, but I'm thoroughly confused. I thought Lagarith was what I was compressing it to for a final product after I had done all my editing. My order was:
1. Open .avi file in virtualdub, and scan for errors (learned this after it kept crashing halfway through).
2. Choose filter (Im using a VHS filter to clean up my files), and save as avi file.
3. Close the file I was working with, and open the file I had just saved, which is now double the size (went from 8GB to 20GB in some cases).
4. Choose Lagarith, and save file.
5. Store this saved file on my computer.
My next step was figuring out how to create a DVD with this file, I assumed I would just convert it with my DVD maker program, but am I going to have to re-compress these files using something like XVID so its MPEG-4?
I am confused why I would bother using lagarith If I am just going to have to compress it with something else later? Shouldn't I just skip that entire process and compress with xvid so that I can burn DVDs via those files?
This whole mess started when my tv tuner broke, and my new one only works with wintv7, but saves file in the .ts format which are useless with all my editing software. I use SolveigMM AVI Trimmer to clean up my files..which now I am afraid to clip if my audio and video are not lined up. |
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| raffriff42 |
| Posted: Jan 6 2014, 10:54 PM |
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You seem to be saving as "uncompressed" in step 2/3. Skip this step and save directly as Lagarith, if that is what you need. You may not need this step at all: VirtualDub can compress with Xvid directly, so no intermediate is needed.
You might not need even this step: try a DVD builder program that accepts .ts files. |
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| Shehasmoxy |
| Posted: Jan 7 2014, 12:05 AM |
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I suppose my reasoning for using virtualdub is the avi format seemed the best way to store files for future editing. My capture card is on a PC but I may edit files on a Mac in the future. My thoughts were to capture with virtualdub, and compress the file for storage (thereby being able to create dvds at a later time).
I suppose I have two options:
1. Open my captured file and save with Lagarith (reason being I read somewhere that I had a higher chance of dropping frames if it wasn't compressed before using filters).
2. Apply filter, save file.
3. Use Xvid to compress to MPEG-4, and store these files.
Or, I could just straight up compress the file with xvid, and leave those on my external hardrive for later editing.
It appears I have hit a snag though, my computer cannot create a DVD with the lagarith files. Another day, anther dead end. |
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| raffriff42 |
| Posted: Jan 7 2014, 12:53 AM |
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Yes - if you want to edit them later, making a lossless intermediate is a good idea. I was just listing your options (the ones that occur to me)  |
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| -vdub- |
| Posted: Jan 7 2014, 11:25 AM |
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Largarith is lossless avi and should be fine for any intermediate file use. I would use it when I video capture with Virtualdub or other softwares that work with the capture device
After capture to Largarith or other lossless intermediate video file you will be able to edit the video as many times as you need while keeping the video picture quality. As long as each time you save the video is again using Largarith or other lossless video encoder (best stick Largarith makes things easier). All This will also depend on which video filters and settings you apply to the video when editing as some video filters can make the video quality worse
For each filter added with its settings set use each filter preview (if has one) or better still use Virtualdub output screen to judge the video changes after each filter is applied. To and fro from filters to output screen is a pain but needed to be done sometimes, back and forth to the video filters until happy with what the video should be with any filter/s applied. After edits and video filters done saving each time back to Largarith until you are ready for final encode using a lossy compression from your final lossless avi Largarith video file
For disc optical disc playback these links below should give you an idea what video containers and the video/audio formats each container can hold on optical disc media each for playing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...ntainer_formats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video
For mpeg2 type videos save final video with Virtualdub External encoders (forum search many various scripts can be found for many container and formats) to do this
If video is to be stored on any device disc or other for pc playback any lossy compressor you could use for final video compression. x264 now sooner or later will be replace with x265 which is meant to surpass x264 we wait to see. x265 works atm but speed is very poor maybe has many bugs still before an official non beta public release is available
x264 encoder use http://sourceforge.net/projects/x264vfw/ and able to save as normally do when saving avi video with virtualdub. Dloneranger has a small guide with pictures for suggested use settings (forum search x264 and name dloneranger should find it). Also x264 using Virtualdub External Encoders if like to do it that way (search as above x264) |
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| Shehasmoxy |
| Posted: Jan 8 2014, 01:17 AM |
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So it looks like I will be using lagarith to archive the .avi files.
Using wintv7, I can also capture with MPEG-2 and burn those smaller files onto a DVD for storage, the AVI files I am going to store on my backup hard drive for potential future editing.
Thanks to everyone who helped here, I've also found this discussion interesting:
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/320035-...g-and-file-size
The final question I have would be, is it standard to capture to a raw format, then once saved, convert to the intermediate like lagarith? Because it looks like I can compress with xvid or lagarith while I capture, but there isn't much documentation on whether this is advisable.
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| Shehasmoxy |
| Posted: Jan 8 2014, 01:25 AM |
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I did come across this statement: "Lagarith isn't very good for capturing, because it's slow in terms of latency which can lead to dropped frames on some systems."
Which seems like it would answer my question.
Interesting that capturing with a compression codec might lead to dropped frames, but compression it with the codec after it has been captured won't cause the same issue.
I can't say I have the patience at this point to delve further into that..as these old VHS tapes aren't getting any younger and I'd like to get started. My family better appreciate the hours I've spent reading the internet trying to figure this out, and I consider myself good with computers. |
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