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| Morsa |
| Posted: Sep 9 2002, 09:08 AM |
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I was wondering "Why only BMP support?"
I know it is faster but, what about if you need an image sequence for any good reason and you want to use as less disk space as posible without losing quality?
Wouldn't be PNG support useful?
Is it so difficult to implement? |
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| Morsa |
| Posted: Sep 10 2002, 12:48 AM |
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Please tell me what you think...... |
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| Spire |
| Posted: Sep 10 2002, 09:39 PM |
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PNG support would certainly be doable, but not trivial to implement the way BMP probably was. (Windows has built-in API support for BMP, but support for PNG would require the use of a third-party library).
Do you need PNG support specifically, or are you simply looking for a way to store video losslessly without the space waste of BMP? If it's the latter, you should look into Huffyuv, a lossless AVI codec that typically achieves a compression ratio of 2:1.
By default, Huffyuv converts 24-bit RGB into 16-bit YUY2, which results in even better space savings with negligible loss for most video (since most capture cards capture interally in YUY2 format anyway, even if you request RGB). But if you want it truly lossless, you can configure Huffyuv to preserve 24-bit RGB. |
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| Neo Neko |
 Posted: Sep 10 2002, 11:26 PM |
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PNG support would be damn spiffy. The ability to take multiple BMPs and put em out to an AVI is nice. But BMP are frigging huge! Lots of disk space wasted inbetween. If someone could incorporate libpng into Virtualdub I would use the PiNG ability. The tricky thing to handle would be the boolean, palleted, or alpha transparancies. Some codecs can do transparency. But AFIK the MPEG ilk can not. |
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| Spire |
 Posted: Sep 11 2002, 02:17 AM |
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Morsa and Neo Neko,
Just out of curiosity, exactly what would you use the PNG import feature for? Where are you getting long PNG image sequences that you want to make AVI files out of in the first place?
(For that matter, what do you currently use the BMP import feature for? What BMP files are you importing into VirtualDub?) |
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| Morsa |
| Posted: Sep 11 2002, 02:35 AM |
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I am using image sequences to avoid 2G problems and limitations and make batch processing with other aplications , image sequences give more compatibility and flexibility, and because PNG compresses my images to an amazing 26%, as you see much more than Huffyuv. |
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| Morsa |
| Posted: Sep 11 2002, 02:39 AM |
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In fact the most important feature I would use is PNG export, but only having export is not very useful, isn't it? |
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| Neo Neko |
| Posted: Sep 11 2002, 11:19 PM |
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Several games offer screen caps in PNG among other things. But I use PNG for all manner of things. I am just a PNG freak. I still use Jpeg for large photographic images. But PNG for everything else and sometimes large photographic images. JPEG->JPEG compressions loose quality over time. Since PNG is lossless and compressed it makes a good intermediary format or final destination. You get the bit accuracy of BMP or similar with compression more on par with JPEG and such. In fact with non photographic or CGI images PNG can do outstanding compression. I had a 200+k Jpeg go down to a 29k PNG. This is a bit of an exception but still impressive. |
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| Sarreq Teryx |
| Posted: Sep 12 2002, 05:25 AM |
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adding to that, it would allow for (after export and mondo amounts of editing) very easy transparencies to use as video overlays (more than just logos) for video production.
and also, if it were possible or wanted (by others), the use of MNGs (Multiple Network Graphics / Animated PNGs) would be nice too
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And as I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, Lord, thy balls and shaft, they comfort me, you annoint my head with oil, some salt, a dash of pepper, a sprigg of parsley......Lord?............Lord??? What dost thou intend to do with that fork??? |
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| Neo Neko |
| Posted: Sep 12 2002, 08:31 AM |
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Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm MNG! I would settle for PNG for now though. I just thought of another place PNG would be good in virtualdub. Lets say for fun you needed to embed a logo. Current filters use BMP and transparency is hit or mis. Wouldn't a logo filter that read and use PNG with binary, palleted, or alpha transparencies be great? Perfect transparency every time! |
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| Morsa |
| Posted: Sep 13 2002, 07:23 AM |
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Yeah, sure!
But it seems nobody with enough programming knowledge is interested about it.
Does anybody know why????? |
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| Spire |
| Posted: Sep 13 2002, 08:35 AM |
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Well, I could certainly do it, but it would be quite a bit of work, due to the idiosyncrasies of the PNG format as well as the wide variety of different PNG image types and features that I'd have to support.
I'm sorry (really, I am), but I just don't see the use -- especially given that the functionality to import image sequences is already there; importing PNG files is currently just one extra step for any user who has access to a batch conversion utility. I think my own time would be better spent working on improving the UI (which is one of my specialties). Is importing of PNG image sequences really something that you'd be doing on a daily basis? Would it really save you so much time that it would warrant an significant amount of a developer's time and effort to implement it?
BTW, on a side note: PNG support (with alpha) for image overlay/logo filters is one thing that would be really nice, but that's really something that you'd need a filter writer to implement, not someone who's working on VirtualDub itself. |
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| Neo Neko |
| Posted: Sep 13 2002, 07:54 PM |
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| QUOTE (Spire @ Sep 13 2002, 02:35 AM) | | BTW, on a side note: PNG support (with alpha) for image overlay/logo filters is one thing that would be really nice, but that's really something that you'd need a filter writer to implement, not someone who's working on VirtualDub itself. |
Correct but it still would be spiffy.
As for PNG support why not just run the files through libpng and have it convert them to BMP for Vdub to use. It would go something like......
Vdub locates the file and opens a file handle to the PNG.
The file handle is then run through libpng.
libpng then passes the uncompressed png in to virtualdub for use either through the existing BMP features or some sort of raw format.
I know enough programming to be dangerous but not to impliment this. But it does not seem that dificult to impliment unless you are going to write your own PNG libraries to use. In that case it would be a massive undertaking. But since libpng(png support) exists why not use it or libmng(mng and jng support). |
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| Morsa |
| Posted: Sep 16 2002, 03:41 AM |
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How about starting a poll????
Just to know how many people is interested about using PNGs????? |
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| Sarreq Teryx |
| Posted: Sep 16 2002, 05:26 AM |
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| QUOTE (Neo Neko @ Sep 13 2002, 01:54 PM) | | QUOTE (Spire @ Sep 13 2002, 02:35 AM) | | BTW, on a side note: PNG support (with alpha) for image overlay/logo filters is one thing that would be really nice, but that's really something that you'd need a filter writer to implement, not someone who's working on VirtualDub itself. |
Correct but it still would be spiffy.
As for PNG support why not just run the files through libpng and have it convert them to BMP for Vdub to use. It would go something like......
Vdub locates the file and opens a file handle to the PNG.
The file handle is then run through libpng.
libpng then passes the uncompressed png in to virtualdub for use either through the existing BMP features or some sort of raw format.
I know enough programming to be dangerous but not to impliment this. But it does not seem that dificult to impliment unless you are going to write your own PNG libraries to use. In that case it would be a massive undertaking. But since libpng(png support) exists why not use it or libmng(mng and jng support). |
wouldn't you lose transparencies that way?
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And as I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, Lord, thy balls and shaft, they comfort me, you annoint my head with oil, some salt, a dash of pepper, a sprigg of parsley......Lord?............Lord??? What dost thou intend to do with that fork??? |
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