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| avz10 |
| Posted: Jan 4 2013, 04:10 PM |
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Newbie
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Member No.: 34862
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Apologies for this long thread. The topics of this thread are:
1. My big disappointment: Audio and video not synced.
2. Hardware
3. VCR connection to computer:
4. Chain of events in VirtualDub
5. My VirtualDub capture settings:
After studying the subject for a few months, I have started capturing my VHS cassettes with VirtualDub, the cassettes date to the late eighties and nineties. (I started this thread: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/349161-...se-for-playback )
I bought a JVC SVHS HR-S8960 in a very good condition. This one apparently has a built in TBC/DNR, i.e. Time Base Corrector with Digital Noise Reduction. (From an earlier post: the HR-S8960 does have the desirable DigiPure TBC/DNR feature)
I also bought an Avermedia A323 Mini Capture card second hand. I have a NVIDIA GeForce GT 520.
VCR connection to computer:
I found that the image quality of the Composite connection was better than the S VHS connection, so I am using composite.
I also cleaned the heads of the VCR just to get the best result possible.
After capturing an hour on a very “much used” cassette, I had no dropped frames.
My plan is to capture all the video cassettes initially and then one after the other move from internal E drive to my external HD with direct stream copy in VirtualDub.
Chain of events:
1. Initial capture with Virtualdub.exe and Lagarith and save on my second internal HD. Big file ± 70GB per 3 hours
a) Clean: Avisynth will process the video and send the clean video to VitualDub 32 bit.
 Open Virtual Dub 32 bit version and open the Clean VHS.AVS
c) From here insert Reverse Field Dominance and select Celocida Codec.
d) After ending will get a cleaned Dv file.
2. Save in second internal HD as a DV file. (Size now much smaller)
3. Edit this DV file with Pinnacle
4. Now saving for future use- encoding, converting to MPEG and DVDs
I plan to keep the original big AVI files, should I need it in future
My VirtualDub capture settings:
Capture AVI
Device >Avermedia
Video >Preview
Video Source>Video composite
Video >Capture pin: PAL N; Frame rate: 25; Color space:UyUy; Output: 720x576
Video >Capture filter: Video decoder>PAL N>OK
Video >Crossbar: 0:Video Comp In-Video Decoder Out
4:Audio line in-Audio decoder out
Video >Compression> Lagarith
Audio >Enable audio capture
>Volume meter
>Audio source: Audio line
>Capture device
I captured a cassette yesterday, while at work. As the video stopped after 3 hours and Vdub kept on recording- I had a massive file (more than 100GB).
Getting home, I stopped recording, but did not look at the parameters in the sidebar.
I opened the file in Vdub to delete the unnecessary parts and then found that the audio and video was out of sync. (Up to 3 seconds at the end of the cassette)
I deleted this file and started again to record the same cassette. Values while capturing: 66 000 frames captured after 44 min, 0 frames dropped/inserted; sync: VT adj +0ms; current error: 0
It indicated while capturing that there were no dropped frames or sync issues. But, playing the same AVI file on Vdub- using the internal E drive, gave me up to a ± 3 second delay between audio and video.
I then used one of the AVI files that I have captured a few days ago- this file also has a delay. So, it is not this specific cassette.
What I have not done in the past, prior to capturing “seriously”, was to change the crossbar. (See the 2 screenshots).
I plan to set up both VCRs over the weekend - my Sansui VCR and the JVC S-VCR, connect it to the TV and see if the videos have an AV delay. (I have in the past, while playing cassettes, never noticed a sync issue)
My questions:
1. Is there a way to overcome this sync issue? I am sure that moving audio will still not be 100%
2. Is a setting wrong?
3. Is there another program that I should rather use to capture raw AVI?
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| Abrazo |
| Posted: Jan 4 2013, 08:21 PM |
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Advanced Member
Group: Members
Posts: 775
Member No.: 28995
Joined: 5-November 10
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Just a few ideas:
1) how to overcome the sync problem ?
When the out of sync is linear, by this I mean: after 1 hour it is 1 sec, after 2 hours it is 2 sec, and after 3 hours it is 3 seconds, then it should be possible to resolve this by a fast reprocessing of the video via VirtualDub, by using Direct Stream Copy in the Video and the Audio menu, and in the Video menu:
> Frame Rate...
at "Source rate adjustment", do choose "Change so video and audio durations match"
at "Frame rate conversion" do choose "Convert to fps" and introduce 25
> do a new File > Save as AVI...
A video tape can normally never go out of sync because video and audio are both on one physical tape. If the original video and audio where in sync at the time that the VHS-device recorded it, than the recording on the tape itself would be perfectly in sync too.
Your actual sync problem must be happening while capturing to AVI.
2) is a setting wrong ?
It would be good to look at Capture > Timing... options
Uncheck everything and at "Resync mode" do a few tests by selecting one of the three choices:
- do not sync
- sync video to audio
- sync audio to video
3) is there an other program ?
I suppose there certainly are, but that is normally out of the context of this forum...
So, give it still a chance with VirtualDub. |
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| GrofLuigi |
| Posted: Jan 7 2013, 03:09 AM |
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Advanced Member
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Posts: 148
Member No.: 340
Joined: 22-September 02
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Indeed, in your first screenshot it is immediately clear what the issue is:
[Audio]
Relative rate = 48001.11 Hz
Most consumer devices don't have integrated audio/video sync that's driven by the same clock, usually the audio goes through the sound card, so there are variations in the rate, usually very small, but significant when the run time is longer.
The old way of (trying to) fix this file (if you still have it) is by saving the audio as wav, then opening it in audio editor and resampling it to 48000 Hz. I think it's equivalent to Abrazo's suggestion no. 1).
But it might not be perfect, i.e. 48001.11 is just an average value, and the clock has drifted a lot more either way (+ or -). But often the correction will also average, i.e. there will be no extreme deviations any more and it might be "good enough".
As for the future, Abrazo gave some very good suggestions. I also think it's somewhere in the Capture > Timing options. Try a lot of combinations, although it will take a lot of time.
Edit: and some additional ideas:
1. Composite should never be better than SVHS (if everything is in working order), so you should check on that.
2. I would capture in 768x576 (if the card allows) then resize to 720x576. I'm no expert on aspect ratios, so I can't explain why, but I think it's the right thing to do. 
3. Check if Pal N and UyUy is right (the former depends on your country, and the second on the capture card (Avermedia). I couldnt find specs by brief googling, but many cards usually work in yuy2.
GL |
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| -vdub- |
| Posted: Jan 7 2013, 07:11 AM |
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Advanced Member
Group: Members
Posts: 613
Member No.: 27087
Joined: 24-February 10
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768x576 = 4:3 aspect ratio (1.333333333333333 to 1) (this is 4:3 aspect use to capture 4:3 video with)
720x576 = 5:4 aspect ratio (1.250000000000000 to 1) (this is not a 4:3 aspect)
As GrofLuigi has said capture at 768x576 then later resize to whatever resolution and aspect you need 720x576 etc. |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Jan 7 2013, 12:31 PM |
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Joined: 26-September 07
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He's capturing at 25 fps so it's probably PAL
PAL dvd's (4:3 ratio) are 720x576
Capturing at a non-origional size and then resizing just doesn't make a lot of sense
Not on the tv it isn't, on the tv that's standard 4:3 resolution - there are more lines vertically on PAL than on NTSC
Your calculations are only correct if you assume that pixels are displayed as square
It all depends on what you're going to play back the video on
Usually it's better to let the tv, player etc do the conversion between 720x576@25 and 720x480@29.97 (NTSC vs PAL)
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| -vdub- |
| Posted: Jan 8 2013, 03:18 PM |
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As far as I know..
OnDigital (1998-2002) unsure what the resolutions they used (maybe 720x576 as with the Freeview service). OnDigital for many was a poor or unreliable service.
If not recorded via OnDigital Box - It would be normal UK Television broadcast 768x576 I believe this was the same for all channels (unknown for sure)
Freeview card or box (2002 onwards) (digital TV) 720x576
If not recorded from a Freeview card or box (Digital TV) (2002 onwards) it would be normal 768x576
Freeview now SD 720x576 or HD (inc SD upscaled AR) are (1920×1080 / 1920×1080 / 1440×1080 / 1280×720) (unknown if others)
UK TV broadcasts using interlace, with HD now broadcasts using progressive picture
Unknown source: Find a round circle wheel, clock or other on the video and see if is correct AR by switching between 768x576 and 720x576 to know for sure. A round circle will always be shown as a round circle not elliptical or off round.
Just did a quick search for this, have found these sorry if any of my infos above are incorrect or differ (I haven't read these wikipedia pages yet)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_terre..._United_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definiti...tion_television
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Jan 8 2013, 04:09 PM |
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| QUOTE | | Unknown source: Find a round circle wheel, clock or other on the video and see if is correct AR by switching between 768x576 and 720x576 to know for sure. A round circle will always be shown as a round circle not elliptical or off round. |
Yup, it's the best way to check
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MultiAdjust JoinWav WavNormalize FFMPeg Input Plugin v1827 UnSharpMask
Windows7/8 Codec Chooser
All FccHandlers Stuff inc. Installers for acm codecs AAC, AC3, LameMp3 |
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