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| i4004 |
| Posted: Aug 30 2004, 03:00 PM |
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http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?thre...20&pagenumber=3
to quote an interesting portion by neko;
| QUOTE | | Infact there is a whole thread here somewhere discussing the whole issue of whether or not P2P is theft started by myself. At the time I was rather of the oppinion it was. Much like yourself. Clearly that is not my oppinion now. Which has arrisen from meaningfull discussions I have had with others and what I have learned from them. |
uhm...
in same manner he has learned to hate microsoft no matter what they do, and (try) to use other OS' no matter if they are good for the purpose or not....
(it's all in the brand; ms sucks and other brands don't... his friends teached him)
let me tell you, neko; ms=best support for multimedia overall and best lobitrate codec (for free!) at this time (wmv9)...
linux=1% of desktops according to google zeitgeist....
[ this means linux is not really working for average user... ]
also, if you once accepted p2p as piracy and then after that you don't anymore, haven't you regressed?
the problem is such; anyone can use p2p, but should be made aware that he is breaking the law.
i also use p2p here and there, but i'm perfectly aware that i'm breaking the law!
(i would use it more if i had faster connection)
neo neko's way is potentially dangerous for the community he participates in;
some folks will indeed get the idea how there is nothing wrong with p2p.
but if the things get to court (it seems as he's begging to end up in court so he can try his 'arguments') he won't be so loud.
he'll find himself completely without arguments!
one important thing has been said in the doom9 thread;
| QUOTE | | The RIAA represents the Studios who will say or do anything to protect THEIR product... Get it? THEIR PRODUCT! |
by geffroman
and this is the essence; let me show you how that works;
let's say neko makes a dvd tomorrow (he's broken, he needs to make this dvd and SELL IT!). unfortunetaly, a copy of dvd that he gave to a friend of his, is pirated, copied and put to p2p....
a words spreads around that there is neko's dvd on p2p: now.... does this do any good for a sales number for his product?
or not?
hollywood?
why do they fight piracy?
for sure, one might say that they already have enough profit not to worry about piracy...
another person might say they don't want this thing spread as rapidly as it does....
both persons are correct...
one more interesting thing by geffroman
| QUOTE | | I could never again respect a site that props people like you up as an authority on their site... You are supposed to be a voice of fairness and reason and you have demonstrated the worst kind of self centered logic for personal gain at the total cost of any sense of proper ethics... At the very least you don't know the meaning of the word MODERATOR... You hurt your own cause and are too ignorant to even see that... |
there goes one more happy doom9 forum customer...
neko is a doom9 moderator; he is (in a nutshell) saying that p2p is ok; doom9's standpoint is somewhat more covered (with mud) when he says
how one needs statistics on how much p2p hurts the hollywood.
no, you don't need anything to be able to tell what's legal and what's not!
in a sense, mod and doom9 founder are breaking the doom9 forum rules.
it is FUN; doom9 is 25 and he's having fun; that's cool, BUT let us be aware that people are reading his stuff!
and doom9 (or neko) won't be in the court with them tomorrow!!!
doom9 and neko are hiding their identities. a men of honour don't do that.
he who's ashamed of (or afraid to use) his own name doesn't deserve to be called a human at all.
speaking how a digital photo of a flower is same as a flower itself is ludicrous!
saying that mp3 or divx don't equal cd or dvd is nuts!
(the message (of film/music) is conveyed equally no matter the decreased quality of mp3 or divx)
speaking about copyright as something ....heh...
one more quote (from neko) goes here;
| QUOTE | | Traditionally musicians and their instruments were the medium to express their creativity. Creativity was important to their job. But not protected. They made their living by their services. To play arround the camp fire for the tribe or to play for the king. The musician represented themselves. This is how things went for the majority of human history. Only in the last few centuries in europe and the US have artificial unnatural doctrines come to be known collectively as copyright. |
this is nuts!
it is *now* called "show business" and you make money on it, wether neko likes it or not.
you cannot live by music alone!
for the king or for the tribe???
a performance of a lifetime neko, for sure!
needless to say, i support stephan's and geffroman's point of view on this one;
geffroman won't be liked on doom9 forum because he said this stuff: there is no point in bringing this up on doom9 forum; mods will (h)ate you, users will (h)ate you, and then doom9 will come and suspend you (can he suspend a donator?).
the main point again: use whatever you want, but be aware of what's legal and what's not!
say "this is illegal but i'm doing it anyway, because of this, this, this and this"....
don't say "this is legal and here's why it's legal" and then speak about kings and tribes!
/ivo
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| i4004 |
| Posted: Aug 30 2004, 11:27 PM |
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now i'm just being nasty;
http://virtualdub.everwicked.com/index.php...ger&#entry19811
1-firefox and firebird as still painfully slow even after i upgraded to 1.3ghz cpu...
(let me add this; moz devs should ask people like avery
"how does one optimize the code?"
apparently, they don't know how to do this...or one can't do that anyway on xml...)
2-pal still has cca. 100 lines more than ntsc
3-xvid still has enormous problems on noise
4-png is not a way to publish/transfer natural video screenshots
(so neko is popularizing net congestion too)
put bmp's to rar and spare some bandwidth....
also, mpng proved to be a flop...(anyone using mpng to cap video?)
5-should i try compressing DV or mjpeg samples (or bmp's) with 7zip?
i have invested time in such discussions, you know...
please read it at least 2 times...
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| stephanV |
| Posted: Aug 31 2004, 11:26 AM |
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they did it again... threat some one for speeking up, guess ill be next, but it is been a month. i can take a hit
(robux4 was threatened too yesterday BTW)
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| i4004 |
| Posted: Aug 31 2004, 10:03 PM |
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the person who says this
| QUOTE | | Actually it is a point. Again you simply miss it. Copyright concepts are extremely rare throughout human history. Further they are still rare today amongst most societies. Even those societies create artisticly. Apparently the concept of copyright is not crucial, usefull, or natural to human societies. |
(by neko, offcourse)
should be ashamed of himself, and not repeat it constantly...
"throughout history"?
what is he on about?
when did folks started making serious money on lp records?
in stone age?
there is no talk of history here, as technology progress in last 2 centuries(18-20) wipes the floor with everything that was before!
it all starts with industrial revolution in great britain...
before that, sure you don't have copyright...
you don't have people buying such stuff and you don't have people making such stuff!
folks in dark ages don't read books all that much, you know; they are worried if they'll see tomorrow as plague and stuff is round the corner...
only rich people had libraries then.
"they are rare today"?
so everything is freeware today?
he doesn't get it;
we pay for stuff, and artists get the money....
if there is no copyright, then i can take one copy, make more copies and give it away for free (on the p2p for example) so artists won't profit...if he won't profit, he won't make more art...
a concept of money is behind this!
a concept where we pay for the things we buy, as opposed to just stealing them!
(as geffroman cleverly noticed!)
copyright=stopping of stealing!
same as
police=stopping of stealing!
(for these reasons, copyright owners turn to police if they see someone stealing=practically giving away for free their stuff=stealing)
human society needs police (this has been proven many times throughout the history....)
ergo, if you wan't satisfied artists (same as if you wan't satisfied and safe citizens), you need "media-police" ie you need copyright laws!
no copyright=no profit for artist=no art....
(a current prices for cd's or dvd's is something worth discussing, but copyright itself is not; you give artists what they want... then, it is up to THEM to see what to do with the money; wise folks with more money than they need will donate..... and if you know dumb artists, don't give them money...don't buy their stuff... )
it would be kinda cool if every artist would NOT work for the money, but for the art itself...
but...heh....
as i said;
"you cannot live by music alone!"
there is a cost to living... costs are payed with money...
neko is stubborn; you can prove him wrong (like i did many times) , but somehow words (and clips, and screenshots etc.) just bounce off from his head...
that's just him;
you did nice job in that thread....
a nice job in speaking the truth....
edit; i think you too
"weren't born to follow"
as you have your own brain to think with!
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| i4004 |
| Posted: Sep 5 2004, 06:06 PM |
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i think fcc should of have joined the thread at doom9 much earlier...
perhaps some folks would understood it earlier (doom9 included)
btw. stephan i think you have made a grave mistake here
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?post...read#post539896
the stuff neko and int 21h have been justifying is the so called "racism"
because neko's slavery is racism ,and int 21h's "some nations should rule over other nations" is racism and nationalism...
(int 21h knows zilch about iraq,bosnia,afghanistan and israel...)
and your answer is alongise HIS words how some folks are entilted to rule over others...
(or, at least, you haven't accused him of racism and stood against his opinion)
also, can you show an example how and when was this (int 21h's stuff) happening ( a stuff that your post too confirms)..... do you think
-afghanistan was peacefull place under "CCCP"?
-you know as much about bosnia as int 21h does (so that's no example).
-iraq was recenlty occupied by usa for no good reason,state is in a state of chaos as a result
-israel is a BIG problem....inside the arabian world, jews state has been created to compensate for jews sufferning during the ww2.jews like this..but arabs didn't....
i don't see a solution to this problem....hamas says they don't wan't jews anywhere near, so either jews go, or arabs go...we know neither will happen, so isreal will continue to be a state of big risk for everyone entering it...and..i know i won't go there for vacation...bombs don't have eyes....chances are slim that one will get killed there, but it's sorta like thinking "is this a minefield...or not"....not a pleasent way to spend time...
some cultures/nations don't go well together...you don't conquer those and then they all fight you...
but you let them all have their own states...(and then they all come to netherlands anyway...  )
look at what hapened at osetia few days ago...
Chechnya will be peacefull when it gets it's independence...and that's it.... (ie then chechens won't attack russia)
here goes ariel sharon speaking "world must unite against terrorism" (on tv); no...terrorism cannot be fought!
they can hit you anytime they wan't (ANY country),and you can't prevent it....
yes, you can have police state, but that doesn't mean you'll prevent terrorists!
sharon knows all about terrorism and how to fight it;just look at his results in israel! 
fcc is right; think about it;
there is a guy selling PC's ( f_u_c_k the flowers ) and there is one guy replicating them and giving them for free.
he stole 1st guys profit and business.
therefore, he stole....
like robin hood...
fcc's stuff is very clever!
doom9's usual hypocrisy is on again; dvd "back-up" site that is against copyright infringment???
huh...
no doom9, you are not entitled to a "backup" copy in a format you choose; guys that made a disk say you'll buy copies FROM THEM to have a "backup"....
they made it, it's their right to say it!
(or you do it, but be aware you're breaking the law...don't talk crap how you're entitled to do it, and how it's wise thing to do)
remind me to write to mpeg la, riaa and mpaa about the doom9's lil project....
hehehe....
LOL!
that doom9 guys have bad influence on you, stephan...
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| stephanV |
| Posted: Sep 5 2004, 07:05 PM |
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| QUOTE (i4004 @ Sep 5 2004, 08:06 PM) | btw. stephan i think you have made a grave mistake here
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?post...read#post539896
the stuff neko and int 21h have been justifying is the so called "racism"
because neko's slavery is racism ,and int 21h's "some nations should rule over other nations" is racism and nationalism...
(int 21h knows zilch about iraq,bosnia,afghanistan and israel...)
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indentured servitude is NOT slavery and it is not racism. It was initially an agreement made willingly by white english poor people to "pay their way" into the americas (as neo puts it). it is for this very reason that it is not a "degree" of slavery: indentured servitude is a labor *agreement* whereas slavery is not. as slaves didnt agree to be captured and sold like horses, this is a difference in concept, not in degree.
but in that thread i said i wouldnt go deeper into that issue, so i didnt. 
| QUOTE |
and your answer is alongise HIS words how some folks are entilted to rule over others...
(or, at least, you haven't accused him of racism and stood against his opinion) |
my post started with
| QUOTE | | Owno... now its becoming a silly thread |
with which i basically i meant to say that int21h was making no sense *at all* in his post. it was late at night and i didnt feel like moralising too much . BTW I by no means find it acceptable that (groups of) people are oppressed by others. int21h posts was indeed pure racism. (if you want i will rectify in that thread too)
| QUOTE | | also, can you show an example how and when was this (int 21h's stuff) happening ( a stuff that your post too confirms)..... do you think |
how does my post confirm it? i only said that if two groups who are hostile towards each other are united by hate for a common and stronger enemy, but will start fighting again after the common eneymy is gone, i do not find that very hopeful. that does not mean i agree with oppression.
| QUOTE |
fcc is right; think about it;
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of course he is
| QUOTE | | ( f_u_c_k the flowers ) |
thats what i said already
| QUOTE |
fcc's stuff is very clever! |
yeah i know, but i was wrong about robin hood though
robin hood was "steal from the rich and give to the poor" whereas DVD pirates seem to be "steal from the rich and give to the greedy" (i dont think a lot of people in Iraq are downloading movies right now).
| QUOTE | | that doom9 guys have bad influence on you, stephan... |
fortunately you are there to keep me on the right path
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| i4004 |
| Posted: Sep 5 2004, 09:19 PM |
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| QUOTE | | indentured servitude is NOT slavery and it is not racism. It was initially an agreement made willingly by white english poor people to "pay their way" into the americas (as neo puts it). it is for this very reason that it is not a "degree" of slavery: indentured servitude is a labor *agreement* whereas slavery is not. as slaves didnt agree to be captured and sold like horses, this is a difference in concept, not in degree. |
let's hear it from neko himself...
for neko, this was not the only "nice" way of slavery, as he said
| QUOTE | | No because there is a moral issue at the heart of that discussion. There is no moral issue at the heart of copyright. Further you talk about slavery as if it is always a bad thing. Frankly in the context of history there have been beneficial instances of slavery. |
for neko, *slavery* is not always a bad thing...
also, he suggests that there is a way to use slavery in a nice way
| QUOTE | | Frankly though like copyright, slavery has been abused more than it was used in recent history. |
so while it's mostly abused, one could use slavery in a nice way.
this is pure madness!
he's not talking about servitude only (which ,as you explained, is not slavery at all)
| QUOTE | | int21h posts was indeed pure racism. (if you want i will rectify in that thread too) |
please do.
otherwise you standpoint on the subject won't be totally clear.
thanks
| QUOTE | | how does my post confirm it? |
your post concurs with his post...
the words you used suggest that such things actually happened sometime...
that's why i asked for an example of this
| QUOTE | | if two groups who are hostile towards each other are united by hate for a common and stronger enemy, but will start fighting again after the common eneymy is gone |
what enemies united (and when) to fight a stronger enemy, and after they won, they continued their fight?
i said that countries that HE listed are not an example of such thing at all, but perhaps you know some proper examples(?)
if you can't do that, then you can't say
| QUOTE | | They did not forgive each other, they replaced their hate for each other with an even bigger hate for a common enemy. |
you were talking in past-tense there, like this stuff already happened...not in "if" form that u used now...
| QUOTE | | whereas DVD pirates seem to be "steal from the rich and give to the greedy" |
| QUOTE | | fortunately you are there to keep me on the right path |
always at your service!
neko told you twice how he knows where you're coming from;
are you coming from netherlands or from vdub forum?
now he knows where are you coming from, you're doomed...
hahaha....
(ohh..dear..i should collect links to all threads where me and him were "chatting away"... he'll come here next time he sees something wrong with vdub on linux....  )
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| fccHandler |
| Posted: Sep 5 2004, 09:20 PM |
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| QUOTE (i4004 @ Sep 5 2004, 02:06 PM) | | i think fcc should of have joined the thread at doom9 much earlier... |
Well, I already said just about everything I could say about the matter in this older thread. I didn't really plan to participate in the current thread, but I just wanted to (hopefully) present a more appropriate flower analogy.
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| i4004 |
| Posted: Sep 5 2004, 09:57 PM |
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wonderfull, fcc....
those doom9 philosophers cannot reply to your very short and very simple examples....
that should be a prefered weapon to fight doom9 hypocrisy: simple truths....simple analogies
they will spend ages and ages trying to prove you wrong, but how?
they are searching holes in the laws, but law is quite simple(always was); don't steal.
very nice...simple and clever!
recenlty you were talking about digital-media versus vhs; i liked that one too...
vhs won't get it's boot-record corrupted that easily
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| stephanV |
| Posted: Sep 5 2004, 10:07 PM |
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| QUOTE (i4004 @ Sep 5 2004, 11:19 PM) |
this is pure madness!
he's not talking about servitude only
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i think he is... but at the moment I'm not that interested in that part of the discussion (its late at night again)
| QUOTE | please do.
otherwise you standpoint on the subject won't be totally clear. |
i will do tomorrow as I'm not in the right mood right now (i just made a screen capture of me typing a post )
| QUOTE | your post concurs with his post...
the words you used suggest that such things actually happened sometime...
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now i understand... was a bit confused about it.
| QUOTE | are you coming from netherlands or from vdub forum?
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both, as both are places where you pretty much can say anything you want (although you cannot always link to it )
earlier on there was a guy on TV who said:"taboos are the foundation of society." which was funny since he used to fight against any taboo there was... its an interesting thought though...
right... off to bed now
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| i4004 |
| Posted: Sep 6 2004, 02:07 PM |
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http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?post...464&#post541464
WOW!
very impressive!
let's see how he reacts to this heavy blow.
(btw. doom9 may erase this thread at one point or another, but i'll provide it as .zip archive free of charge.... i'll just steal it! let's see doom9 sue me for copyright infringement... but he'll have to say his name first... )
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| phaeron |
| Posted: Sep 6 2004, 10:33 PM |
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You guys should know better than to feed the trolls. I have never once seen anyone change their stance in an argument on this subject.
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| i4004 |
| Posted: Sep 7 2004, 12:03 AM |
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| QUOTE | | I have never once seen anyone change their stance in an argument on this subject. |
main thing geffroman, stephan and fcc brought is the standpoint opposite to neko,int and doom9
they don't have to convince neko, but just show some solid proof how he's wrong....
and they did fine...i think geffroman alone wouldn't be able to do that... (but if you have stephan and fcc, perhaps it's a tad harder for doom9 to close or erase the thread)
one man is almost nothing against 10 doom9 vultures...
after this thread, people may start thinking in different terms about p2p...
they should at least be aware how and why is dloading movies and music via p2p illegal...
also, i think few people actually DID change their mind about the whole thing; those who got a call from a police with a friendly voice
"when did you buy the music you're listening now?"
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| Wilbert |
| Posted: Sep 7 2004, 09:57 PM |
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| stephanV |
| Posted: Sep 7 2004, 10:33 PM |
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ah well...
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