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| terrypin |
| Posted: Jul 9 2013, 09:36 PM |
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Using VirtualDub 1.9.11 tonight I found that it hung when trying to save files. Any file and normal or old format save, and Direct Stream Copy. No browser appeared, the program just took all CPU resource and had to be forcibly closed.
It was OK yesterday.
Rebooting my PC didn't fix it.
I'll get into this more methodically in the morning but meanwhile wonder if this rings a bell with anyone please? Any particular areas I should investigate?
Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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| raffriff42 |
| Posted: Jul 9 2013, 10:42 PM |
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Possible disk error  Just in case that is the problem, you should immediately 1. stop writing to the disk, 2. back up your most important files, 3. delete unimportant files (try to free up maximum disk space) and 4. run Windows disk repair. (These are good things to do anyway, every once in a while)
If disk repair succeeds, run Windows Defrag; cautiously resume use of the drive. If disk repair fails, prepare to replace it... 
(I hope I'm wrong about this) |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Jul 10 2013, 05:38 AM |
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A decent free disk SMART status checking program
http://crystalmark.info/?lang=en
Any errors in the windows system event logs?
Is it hanging on all video files or just one particular one?
If it's just one, can it be copied somewhere else with windows explorer? That'd rule out a bad sector
In task manager when you have the cpu usage graph showing, look for the option 'show kernal times' (or something like that)
That wil show cpu usage for drivers/hardware in red and user mode cpu usage in green
If the 100% usage is mostly red, then it's drivers/hardware that's likely the cuplrit
On the task manager tab 'details' sort by cpu usage and 'show processes from all users'. Is virtualdub at the top of the graph, or rogue antivirus/similar?
ProcessExplorer from Microsoft (free) is a better taskmanager that can show the cpu usage of programs and their individual bits (dlls etc)
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinte...ernals/bb896653
You might be able to see if eg it's a codec getting stuck on a badly formed file
And as a general diagnostic, go backwards through time looking at what software was updated lately 
Luckily, windows update has a view update history that's sortable by date, and so does the control panels uninstall program
(and if you're on vista or newer there's a reliability monitor that can show a history of problems and crashes)
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Windows7/8 Codec Chooser
All FccHandlers Stuff inc. Installers for acm codecs AAC, AC3, LameMp3 |
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| terrypin |
| Posted: Jul 10 2013, 06:35 AM |
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Thanks both.
But I don't see how it can be a disk problem. I can save as normal from all other programs I've tried, including Excel, Word, PaintShop Pro, TextPad, Movie Edit Pro, Firefox, etc.
I thought perhaps it was some corruption in 1.9.11, but I get the same problem with 1.9.8 which I've since tried.
I enter the filename, click Save - and nothing, no progress bar or any apparent activity. But on checking XP TaskMgr I see VirtualDub.exe is consuming 25% of this quad core PC.
I'll now explore the Events Log and other suggestions and would welcome any other thoughts please.
One of the first ideas I had was that this was somehow related to the installation of a codec. I'm some way out of my depth in this area but in short it followed attempts to get certain types of video file (specifically those containing transparency in an alpha channel) accepted by my NLE, Magix Movie Edit Pro. The following exchange will hopefully make this clearer:
Helper
It looks like none of the lagarith tests worked with alpha channel.
UT is UT Video Codec, you need that installed for the "25fps_2frames_UT_AVI1.0.avi" test
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Ut-Video-Codec-Suite
My reply
I installed that before my tests, which as reported failed.
Vdub now appears to be refusing to save to 'old format' AVI. Just hangs while consuming 25% of CPU. Including the 2.6 GB Post#48-PDR-uncompressed_premultiplied.avi which I successfully saved before as Post#68-Terry-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW-OldFormat.avi
I'll try uninstalling UT, in case somehow that's causing this odd issue.
I then uninstalled that codec (with Revo Uninstaller) and rebooted my PC. So if that had somehow caused the problem, it should now be playing no part.
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P.S. I've asked this before, probably years ago! Why do tags for Bold, Italics, etc, get placed at the end of my sig, instead of at the point in my post when I click the tool? Took me ages to compose the above...
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Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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| raffriff42 |
| Posted: Jul 10 2013, 10:16 AM |
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Please re-install VirtualDub:
* back up your plugins32 folder
* delete all files & folders in your VirtualDub folder
* re-install (unzip) VirtualDub
* if "save" problem is fixed, copy your filters back to plugins32, one by one, testing each time.
If that doesn't fix it, please answer the following:
What type of video file is your source?
What compression settings are your using? (video and audio)
Which filters are active, if any?
Open the destination folder in Windows Explorer. Try to save. Are any files created?
Can Movie Edit Pro save a video file (not a project file etc) to the same folder?
Are you overwriting an existing file?
What is the exact filename?
This post has been edited by raffriff42 on Jul 10 2013, 12:46 PM |
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| terrypin |
| Posted: Jul 10 2013, 12:43 PM |
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Thanks for trying to help.
But the problem affects all files! Not connected to MEP.
And the crash (locking up PC) occurs even if I click Cancel instead of Save. Even if no change to the filename has been made.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461...veProblem-1.jpg
Same with 1.9.8
Yet I can save as usual from VirtualDubMod 2.5.4.2.
I re-installed 1.9.11 but no change.
I'm baffled and at a dead end.
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Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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| raffriff42 |
| Posted: Jul 10 2013, 12:48 PM |
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> But the problem affects all files!
> I can save as usual from VirtualDubMod
Does not compute??
You didn't answer all my questions. (I have my reasons for asking each one)
EDIT #1
> And the crash (locking up PC) occurs even if I click Cancel instead of Save.
Ahhh. Disable 'real time' or 'resident' antivirus for that drive. I would disable search indexing and WMP media library scanning, and maybe disable video thumbnail generation.
EDIT #2
A buggy codec can cause this as well, as the codec is called by Explorer to generate the thumbnail and (I think) for general video information. Another reason to disable video thumbnails. |
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| terrypin |
| Posted: Jul 11 2013, 08:32 AM |
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I've now resolved this problem. The underlying cause looks obscure. Although caused directly within Vdub, it sems to involve corrupted files. I suspect it will be difficult to fix but to help if the developer wants to investigate further I've provided details below.
In an attempt to isolate my problem I ran SysInternals Procmon. I stopped events, cleared the entries and added a filter to show only Process Name = VirtualDub.exe
I then opened a 3 year old, small AVI in VirtualDub 1.9.11. The file was unrelated with any recent work or MEP.
I then started the Procmon events capture and quickly performed the following operations, in about 10 secs.
In VDub I used File > Save as AVI file (F7) and then clicked Cancel in the resulting dialog. Vdub then froze as usual. I then stopped Procmon capture and used XP Task Mgr to close VDub.
I rarely use Procmon because its results are almost entirely obscure to me. I'm just an experienced end user, not a programmer or techie. But this time it gave me an immediate clue. A pair of entries involving a recent AVI accounted for all the activity apart from the first few seconds, presumably from when I clicked Cancel.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461...Dub-Procmon.jpg
I repeated this exercise with two other old AVI files, from 1 to 5 years old and from a variety of folders. All gave the same result. In one of them I added another filter:
Path = C:\Docs\My Videos\Clocks\Post#42-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi
So this time all the entries, which again would have continued for ever, involved that same file.
I saved the Procmon log file, as both a PML and a CSV file and have uploaded them here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461...ProcmonLog2.PML
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461...ProcmonLog2.CSV
I deleted the implicated file C:\Docs\My Videos\Clocks\Post#42-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi and for good measure renamed the \Clocks folder to \Clock Videos.
Normal Vdub operation then returned
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Now some background information about that culprit file.
In a long discussion in the videohelp.com forum I was getting help from two experienced contributors. The full thread is here
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357196-...to-a-video-clip?
But in short they were kindly sending me files (videos of an animated clock) which contained transparent backgrounds embedded in their alpha channel. (My NLE, Magix Movie Edit Pro 2013 Premium, unfortunately does not support the creation of this type, so I couldn't design my own.) Therefore I was testing these suggestions to see if they worked as they should in MEP.
The implicated file was the result of unpacking uncompressed_AVI_premultiplied_black_on_white.7z attached by PDR in post #48. I renamed that 2.6 GB file to PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi, later prefxing the post number for my re-tests and Summary in post #85, so that it became Post#42-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi. (Strictly it should have been Post#48-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi, but I've left the name now to avoid even further confusion!)
As reported in post#55, "Unfortunately PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi crashed MEP. Got the hour glass indefinitely so forcibly closed MEP after 5-10 minutes."
And from my summary in post #85:
Post #: 48
Filename: Post#48-PDR-uncompressed_premultiplied.avi
Size: 2.6 GB
FPS: 30 fps into MEP set to 25 fps.
Imports OK into MEP?: No
Screenshot(s) in MEP: Cannot test
Size looks OK?: Cannot test
Hr/Min ratio OK?: Cannot test
Result example:
Any other comments: Crashes MEP. No message, but hour glass runs indefinitely and status bar reports 'Initialising Audio Decoder (please wait)'. Forcibly close MEP.
It seems that the VirtualDub crash/freeze occurred from that time onwards whenever the File Save As browser was opened.
Although theoretically redundant (as it's obviously available from the original) I've temporarily uploaded the file here too:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461...-Premult-BW.avi
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Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Jul 11 2013, 10:54 AM |
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Thanks Terry for the detailed information, hopefully Phaeron can check it out
Just one question though
During your tests, did any of the open/save dialogs involve the same folder that the clock file was in?
If it did, does a similar problem happen if you eg save a file from notepad in the same folder?
I'm just trying to think of a way a seemingly unrelated file could cause problems - explorers shell extensions can occasionally cause side effects like that (thumbnail generation etc)
--------------------
MultiAdjust JoinWav WavNormalize FFMPeg Input Plugin v1827 UnSharpMask
Windows7/8 Codec Chooser
All FccHandlers Stuff inc. Installers for acm codecs AAC, AC3, LameMp3 |
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| -vdub- |
| Posted: Jul 11 2013, 11:09 AM |
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Also try with using an empty fresh installed os on a virtual machine with virtual additions installed. Or a pc with a clean installed os with no additions. To rule out virtualdub registry entries and all items installed on your pc os and non os. At least something to do while waiting for phaeron to reply |
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| terrypin |
| Posted: Jul 11 2013, 11:39 AM |
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| QUOTE (-vdub- @ Jul 11 2013, 11:09 AM) | | Also try with using an empty fresh installed os on a virtual machine with virtual additions installed. Or a pc with a clean installed os with no additions. To rule out virtualdub registry entries and all items installed on your pc os and non os. At least something to do while waiting for phaeron to reply |
Although i hate unsolved puzzles, having spent a solid day 'fixing' it, I'll pass on that one thanks!
Over to the developer(s) now
Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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| terrypin |
| Posted: Jul 11 2013, 01:22 PM |
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| QUOTE (dloneranger @ Jul 11 2013, 10:54 AM) | Thanks Terry for the detailed information, hopefully Phaeron can check it out
Just one question though
During your tests, did any of the open/save dialogs involve the same folder that the clock file was in?
If it did, does a similar problem happen if you eg save a file from notepad in the same folder?
I'm just trying to think of a way a seemingly unrelated file could cause problems - explorers shell extensions can occasionally cause side effects like that (thumbnail generation etc)
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Hi dloneranger,
I copied the entire \Clocks folder to another drive, E:\Clocks. So far I haven't used it again (reluctant to risk a relapse!) but I've just tried your suggestion in the greater cause. I added a text file and opened it in my text editor, TextPad. It saved (or cancelled) without a problem. I haven't tried Vdub again in that folder though. 
I did establish that Vdub was the only app I had found with a File Save As problem, but I don't think any of my tests involved files in that folder (apart from AVIs of course) so it was a promising line of enquiry.
I've also reported the issue to Magix Technical Support, given that it was only after the crash in MEP that it seemed to arise.
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Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Jul 11 2013, 03:31 PM |
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Thanks for the feedback, it's appreciated
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MultiAdjust JoinWav WavNormalize FFMPeg Input Plugin v1827 UnSharpMask
Windows7/8 Codec Chooser
All FccHandlers Stuff inc. Installers for acm codecs AAC, AC3, LameMp3 |
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| raffriff42 |
| Posted: Jul 11 2013, 08:40 PM |
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Good work, terry. I ran procmon on VirtualDub, Save As, Cancel and am amazed at the number of system and 3rd party DLLs activated just to view ONE folder in a dialog box. Any app that has a shell extension feature (whether visible or not - eg certain *adobe* background DRM processes) is consulted. Certain file types required calling the associated app (MPC-HC in my case) to render the icon - never mind thumbnails, which I've disabled. Thumbnails require 3rd party codecs and can introduce instability - like freezing up.
(btw vdub's virtual machine suggestion was a good one - always keep a fresh OS install in a VM that can be reverted after performing some test. It's too handy not to have) |
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| terrypin |
| Posted: Jul 12 2013, 08:22 AM |
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| QUOTE (raffriff42 @ Jul 11 2013, 08:40 PM) |
(btw vdub's virtual machine suggestion was a good one - always keep a fresh OS install in a VM that can be reverted after performing some test. It's too handy not to have)
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Unfortunately VMs are a closed book to me!
And as my 750 GB OS drive is not partitioned, a drive image onto my second, identical HD is not practical either. So yes I am always apprehensive about a total failure, reliant on recovery and re-installation. I also take nightly, weekly and fortnightly data and registry backups, using a 1 TB and 2 TB external WD drive.
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Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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