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| susan |
| Posted: Apr 2 2013, 06:45 PM |
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Hello
I'm new to video editing and VirtualDub. The issue I have is that my output image has a grey haze to the picture (ie: white is not white, it's grey... and the other colored images on screen have a grey cast to the color).
Unsure if the issue lies with not selecting the right filter within VirtualDub or it's due to the MP4 player. The MP4 player I'm using is VLC media player (I need to use a free MP4 player as I'm sending file (along with VLC link) to many folks who may not have a download that plays the MP4 file format).
When I"m editing within VirtualDub the image color(s) is correct... even the "preview" images (Output images) are the correct colored images I hope for. Not sure what is going wrong when coverting into MP4 format (I am inputting JPG files to create animation). I did try adjusting the HSV Filters in VirtualDub; however loose to much color in many objects.
Also am using x264 codec as I was told it's faster, better quality than XviD.
Appreciate your thoughts! Thank you.
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| susan |
| Posted: Apr 2 2013, 06:55 PM |
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Meant to say I"m downloading PNG files into VirtualDub... not JPG. |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Apr 2 2013, 07:02 PM |
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Sounds like it could be a levels problem
Try the 'alias format' filter and it's options to see if it corrects it
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| susan |
| Posted: Apr 3 2013, 10:39 AM |
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Thank you!
Here's my ignorance... where do I find Levels for Alias Format?
I tried Levels via x264 VFW Configuration and the only option was: Auto (which is selected) or a slew of numbers from 1-5.
Also tried Levels within Filters and options were:
- Uncheck "operate in Luma instead of RGB" (which I did and did not change issue). The bugger is that my preview image looks perfect (even before/after any changes applied).
- Output levels. The options are to change numerical settings in either "0" or "255".
*Also forgot to share last time I use the "2:1 Reduction Filter (high quality)"
Thank you again... greatly appreciate your help! |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Apr 3 2013, 03:30 PM |
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Ok, there's a few things to check, and a few clarifications
The x264 'level' section just happens to be the same word as the levels for the video, apart from that they have nothing to do with each other
The x264 one is what capabilities the video encoder can use
The video levels have to do with how the video bytes are used
There are two systems (rgb and yuv)
Rgb uses the numbers from 0-255 to go from no colour, to full colour
Yuv uses 16-235 to go from no colour, to full colour
What's supposed to happen when going from one to another (eg png to x264) is that the numbers get stretched out to fit, or squished together to fit
Virtualdub does this automatically for you
And when the pc plays it back on the monitor it does the conversion there as well (the monitor is rgb)
- or at least, that's what's supposed to happen
When you get grey looking videos, then something has broken down somewhere
3 places it can break at are
1) virtualdub not sending the right range to the video encoder
2) The video decoder getting it wrong when playing back
3) The graphics cards overlay surface getting it wrong when playing back
If virtualdub is getting it wrong, then the input and output panes should look different - then you'd add a filter called 'alias format' to force it to one or the other
You say that's ok though
Does it look grey in virtualdub if you load the video back into it?
Does it look grey in a video player? If so, which video player? Does it look grey in other video players?
Does you graphics card have any video settings, if so are the controls for it in sensible positions
There are too many possibilities to just give you a 'tick this box' reply i'm afraid
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| susan |
| Posted: Apr 3 2013, 06:12 PM |
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Thank you. I'll explore this a bit and then circle back if I found a solution (given this may be a day or two, simply wanted to express graciousness for getting back to me right away). Has been very helpful- thanks! |
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| asaleo |
| Posted: Apr 3 2013, 08:39 PM |
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I think I have seen the same as you in some (not all) of my saved videos, .avi, vfwavi and mp4.
Saving from VirtualDub to uncompressed file did not change colour.
Colour in VirtualDub is OK.
Opening of greyish video in VirtualDub "removed" the greyish look.
Saving file with Sony Vegas MS did not show greyish colour but I have also noticed that colours from my Sony Vegas MS sometimes seems "strengthen"
I am interested to follow your experience.
dloneranger is the experienced guy.
I hope he can find something.
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| asaleo |
| Posted: Apr 3 2013, 09:06 PM |
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After writing I got the idea to check different players.
Quicktime showed a very grey videon, playing saved mp4
VLC showed lesser grey colours than quicktime.
Comparing VLC and Windows media player playing .avi, Windows media player kept colours without greyish tint.
I now think that the greyish tint comes from the player.
When VLC plays the original mp4 file, colours are OK
Playing from VirtualDub saved mp4 it has the greyish tint.
My posts in this matter is only a trial to help.
I do not want to mess up the thread.
If so, forgive me.
Regards
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Apr 3 2013, 09:07 PM |
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When you save uncompressed are you saving as rgb or one of the yuv formats?
Nearly all the compressed formats use one of the yuv formats, and that can be where 'problems' can turn up
If you've got a sample that you can reproduce on demand, this is what I'd try
Test 1
On the video depth dialog, set the output to 420 planar
That should make virtualdub do the final conversion before handing it to the codec
Test 2 if 1 doesn't work
Same as test 1, but add a convert format filter last, and select 420 planar
That should absolutely, definitely make virtualdub do the final conversion before handing it to the codec :-)
My setup has both of those by default as part of the script vdub starts up with and I never get any grey problems
(I always use xvid an x264vfw for encoding, and ffdshow does the decoding)
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Apr 3 2013, 09:12 PM |
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@asaleo
One other thing that may happen is if the player uses the graphics cards overlay surface
Media player classic is a good test for that, as you can change the renderer between overlay, vmr, evr
If the display is only bad when overlay is selected, then it's a graphics card problem, and if you're lucky there'll be settings in its config settings somewhere
If it's the same in all, then you can rule out graphics card problems
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| susan |
| Posted: Apr 4 2013, 02:52 AM |
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Thank you so much for your thoughts.
@DelonerangerA couple of very ignorant questions:
1. Where do I find "420 Planar"?
2. I did find Convert Format Filter (in Filters); however did not know options to select. What was highlighted was "32bit RGB". Options were 4.4.4.-4.2.2.
I only have X264 cocdec included... should I have incorporated or used ffdshow or Xvid?
*I'm very new to this type of media. My background is in Interior Design... and am using animation as a tool in showcasing ideas. Also have been self taught along the way with different software systems platforms (hence the ingronce by not learning in classrooms)
@ Asaleo/Deloneranger
Did try another MP4 player and YES, much better! The one I tried is Media Player Lite which took the "grey haze" out of picture. Oddly though, it did affect a color in my drawing (negatively) so am still looking around to test other Media Players. Per Deloneranger's advice... would like to pursue that first (420 Planar/Convert File Format changes)
Thank you so much for the conversation/thoughts.... HUGELY appreciated.
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Apr 4 2013, 06:00 AM |
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Sorry, I way just being lazy by typing 420
In the actual dialogs it's "4:2:0 planar YCbCr (YV12)"
If you're colours are a bit off, but the brightness/contrast is correct, you might be getting an unwanted SD->HD colourspace conversion somewhere
Some players/codecs will assume a video with a width<1024 is SD and >=1024 is HD
When HD TV and video was created, they decided that in the new HD system,colours would be slightly different to the older standard
................yeah,....that was a..really..........."helpful"......thing for them to do
If that's what's happened, and you want to correct the colours there are a few filters that can do it
I'll suggest trying my MultiAdjust filter from here http://sourceforge.net/projects/multiadjus...ry.zip/download
Like all downloaded filters, take the file out of the .zip file it's in and move it to a folder called "plugins32" in the Virtualdub folder
To use it, load vour images, open the filters dialog, add the MultiAdjustFilter
And then the setting you want is toward the bottom right of the MultiAdjust dialog
Look for "Colourspace" and see if changing the dropdown to 601->709 or 709->601 helps
You'll have to test by saving and then playing back in your player of choice
(If the colours are being tweaked by the player then they'll look a bit odd in Virtualdub before saving)
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Now, the bad news
Assuming you get everything absolutely perfect
When you hand out the video to other people, there's a good chance that their pc will not play it back exactly like yours did
They may get slightly different colours, contrasts and brightnesses
Just like when you look at someone else's tv, even the differences in monitors and their setting there will alter the picture a bit
Don't worry about it too much though, as only YOU know exactly what it was supposed to like in the first place!
But you might want to hand out a few of the original images as well if you want anyone to see the exact colours etc that you intended
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About the codecs,
X264 is fine
You'll get the same problem with all the codecs that use YUV (divx, xvid etc)
It's all to do with way video is played on TV's and broadcasted
You could have a read on Wikipedia for better information, but here's a rough outline
PC's use red green and blue for each pixel on the screen (RGB). The numbers for each colour can go from 0 to 255, where 0 is no colour and 255 is full colour
TV's (and codecs that uses the tv system) use YUV instead of RGB
In that system there is brightness (that goes from 16-239) and a mix of two colour channels called U and V that go from 16 to 235)
The 'missing' numbers are now used for 'true black' and 'true white' - hmmm, you know when you watch a letterboxed film and the black bars on the screen are blacker than anything else in the film?? Well that's the 'true black' and that's where your missing numbers went :-)
To change from the pc's RGB to the tv style YUV, we have to do a bit of maths to convert them - sort of like feet to centimetres
Unfortunately, SD TV's and HD TV's have different centimetres ... ............. sigh........ and that gives slightly different colours...... sigh again......
And then to play back on a pc, the numbers have to be converted back again
You even have to make a guess here about the saved video, is it HD or SD colours in it????
(Some players do this by seeing how wide the video is -> too wide for an SD tv, then it must be HD!)
Hopefully, after all those conversions you get back the same numbers you originally put in
You can probably guess that there are more than a few ways this could go wrong somewhere along the line
I don't know how you're creating the original images, but it might be worth checking your softwares settings for anything related to colourspaces, hd, 709, 601 etc and if there is, set it to HD
HD and 709 are the same thing, SD and 601 are the same thing
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All FccHandlers Stuff inc. Installers for acm codecs AAC, AC3, LameMp3 |
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| susan |
| Posted: Apr 4 2013, 11:55 AM |
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Thank you.
Ignorant questions again.....
- I can't find plugins folder 32. I was able to extract MultiAdust Filter file which is in a VDF format onto my desktop. I don't know how to move it into the plugins32
- Is there a MP4 media player you'd suggest? I've been trying so many (and trying to remove them from add/delete programs). The trick I have is that I will need to forward/recommend the player as the folks I"m sending the animation too most likely will not have the ability to play a MP4 file.
Got it!- 4:2:0 : ) Thx!
Also greatly appreciate your insight on SD TV- HD TV - computer screen. Once I get this project out that will be my next endeavor to play around with settings with different sources. Greatly appreciate your thoughts!
Thank you again as your assistance. Thank you. |
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| dloneranger |
| Posted: Apr 4 2013, 01:54 PM |
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Inside of virtualdub's folder there should be another folder called plugins32 (older versions of virtuladub only had a 'plugins' folder, and the 64bit version should have 'plugins64')
If it's not there in the virtualdub folder you can just make a new folder and call it plugins32
Then just move the .vdf file into that folder
From then on, whenever you start virtualdub the new filter should be in the list of filters that you can add
Just for info, the 32bit version of virtualdub can only load 32bit plugins, and the 64bit version can only load 64bit plugins
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All FccHandlers Stuff inc. Installers for acm codecs AAC, AC3, LameMp3 |
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| susan |
 Posted: Apr 4 2013, 02:35 PM |
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Hey thank you so much dloneranger!
Still playing around wtih a number of different Media Players to see which may have the best output... and that may be easiest to share with perspective clients to view files (AND including suggestions/direction you had mentioned) and once I figure it out will post for others that may also experience similar issue.
Thank you again!! Appreciated it. |
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