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| ChristianHJW |
| Posted: Oct 19 2002, 09:23 AM |
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Advanced Member
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http://www.corecodec.com/modules.php?op=mo...topic&p=769#769
My 2nd baby, MCF, needs a new name.
I met a few interesting, creative people here so i thought some of you might be interested to assist us ?
BTW : latest status with MCF is that we now have alpha muxers and alpha parsers for video and audio, all based on Dshow ....
Latest MCF specs are written in DocBook by our 'chief engineer' robux4 now and be freezed then. After updating libmcf to latest specs we will start modifying Vdub to have MCF suport ..
From my little son to you ( he is writing this message with me ) :
    
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Visit the unofficial Virtualdub support forum on http://forums.virtualdub.org - help to reduce the big number of emails Avery Lee is getting every day !!
Support matroska as container and Gstreamer as the only truely open, x-platform multimedia platform .... |
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| Neo Neko |
 Posted: Oct 19 2002, 10:29 AM |
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VirtualdubMod Alpha tester
Group: Vdubmod Alpha Testing Team
Posts: 474
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Again? It needs to be renamed again?
I opt for the format formerly known as TMF. I am working on an unrecognisable/unpronounceable symbol to represent it's name.  |
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| fccHandler |
| Posted: Oct 20 2002, 05:04 AM |
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Administrator n00b
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I've read the MCF specs, so let me say up front that I understand your intentions are most noble and the specification is quite elegant.
I'm probably going to get killed for what I'm about to say next, but I've come to believe that ASF/WMV may still be a superior format for multimedia storage. This (very unpopular) opinion of mine comes after reading the ASF specs recently released by Microsoft:
asfspec11300e
Implementations based on the ASF format are far from perfect (WMP 7 being a horrid example), but now that the specs are public I'm much more inclined to embrace the format.
OK, I've had my say. (Now the killing begins...) 
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May the FOURCC be with you... |
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| Neo Neko |
| Posted: Oct 20 2002, 06:50 AM |
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VirtualdubMod Alpha tester
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The scope of MCF is beyond just a simple container IIRC. It is more than ASF. |
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| ChristianHJW |
| Posted: Oct 20 2002, 12:33 PM |
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Advanced Member
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No killing from my side for sure ..... but i admit i am freightened about what would happen once Avery decided to release a new Vdub with ASF support .. maybe the end for MCF ?
What do we know about ASF suporting
- mode 2 form 2 burning
- codec support for those being not VfW/ACM
- chapters
- menues
- attachement files
- hardware profiles ?
Thanks for your input if you know any better about ASF than i do ( too busy to read the complete specs ) ...
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Visit the unofficial Virtualdub support forum on http://forums.virtualdub.org - help to reduce the big number of emails Avery Lee is getting every day !!
Support matroska as container and Gstreamer as the only truely open, x-platform multimedia platform .... |
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| Neo Neko |
| Posted: Oct 21 2002, 04:19 AM |
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| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 20 2002, 06:33 AM) |
No killing from my side for sure ..... but i admit i am freightened about what would happen once Avery decided to release a new Vdub with ASF support .. maybe the end for MCF ? |
Would Avery do such a thing after they scorned him so? After the way they behaved they should beg him to re-impliment ASF. As far as i am concerned Virtualdub is just fine without ASF support.
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 20 2002, 06:33 AM) |
What do we know about ASF suporting
- mode 2 form 2 burning |
It is a streaming format so it should be ok.
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 20 2002, 06:33 AM) |
- codec support for those being not VfW/ACM |
Well it supports WDM. But if you want to use non-Microsoft stuff you are totally S.O.L. unless you write the code and codecs to do so.
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 20 2002, 06:33 AM) | | - chapters |
AFAIK no. And I don't think Microsoft is going to have much intrest in it for quite a while.
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 20 2002, 06:33 AM) | | - menues |
Again that would be kinda innovative. So count Microsoft out.
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 20 2002, 06:33 AM) | | - attachement files |
Nah. But they will allow you to embed URLs that will automatically pop up ads or viruses. And best of all you can't disable it. And it happens each time you play the file.
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 20 2002, 06:33 AM) | | - hardware profiles ? |
If the hardware runs Windows they will be all over it with a half arse implimentation on the doubble. Otherwise you are again S.O.L..
| QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Oct 20 2002, 06:33 AM) | | Thanks for your input if you know any better about ASF than i do ( too busy to read the complete specs ) ... |
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| ChristianHJW |
| Posted: Oct 21 2002, 09:05 AM |
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Advanced Member
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Thanks for your detailled inout Neo, you confirmed everything other video experts told me about the format, so maybe the MCF team doesnt have to be scared of it  ...
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Visit the unofficial Virtualdub support forum on http://forums.virtualdub.org - help to reduce the big number of emails Avery Lee is getting every day !!
Support matroska as container and Gstreamer as the only truely open, x-platform multimedia platform .... |
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| Neo Neko |
 Posted: Oct 21 2002, 08:16 PM |
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VirtualdubMod Alpha tester
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I may or may not be 100% on one or two things. But whatever the reality is don't get lax. The sooner MCF is done the sooner ASF will be displaced. Every moment wasted is another moment in favor of ASF. With Microsoft opening the format specs after all the punnishment they doled out on people who tried to use it on their own in the past. It is quite clear that Microsoft has once again realised that through their stupid thoughtless actions they have almost killed their product everywhere but a few staunch pro-microsoft business establishments. I say lets take their common ignorance out to it's logical end and work to kill off ASF and any other Microsoft with better non-Microsoft products. It is after all only fitting and right. |
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| fccHandler |
| Posted: Oct 22 2002, 05:39 AM |
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Administrator n00b
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Ready for some more killing? (I'm sure Neo Neko is...) 
I've never understood why everyone is so against Microsoft. I've used Microsoft products for 15+ years and they are the best. Sure, I've had my share of problems (if Windoze didn't crash every 5 minutes I might forget that it was running).
Now that the specs are public, developers finally have the ability to write their own ASF software. I say let's go for it.
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May the FOURCC be with you... |
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| ChristianHJW |
| Posted: Oct 22 2002, 07:00 AM |
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Advanced Member
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The MCF devs were reading ASF specs and were not impressed.
The framing itself is very complicated and inflexible, maybe the reason for the incredibly long search times. There are no proper subtitles specs, same goes for menues and other enhanced features.
Biggest problem is ( again ) it can only work with VfW codecs for video, so this is completely unacceptable, especially with respect to the upcoming MPEG4 simple advanced profiles and its capabilities.
Makes me sleep better again ... seems ASF is by no means a competitor to MCF. Maybe this was the reason M$ opened the specs, because they are outdated.....
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Visit the unofficial Virtualdub support forum on http://forums.virtualdub.org - help to reduce the big number of emails Avery Lee is getting every day !!
Support matroska as container and Gstreamer as the only truely open, x-platform multimedia platform .... |
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| fccHandler |
| Posted: Oct 22 2002, 04:01 PM |
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Oh well, if no one is gonna support ASF then it will slowly die. Anyway Christian, I'm glad you are sleeping better and I wish you the best of luck with MCF (or whatever you decide to call it).
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May the FOURCC be with you... |
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| ChristianHJW |
| Posted: Oct 22 2002, 06:18 PM |
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Advanced Member
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I guess i was posting rubbish ( again ) !
Of course, the technical name and sf.net project name will always be MCF, and the extension is .mcf. What we need is a nice name for 'normal' people, not an acronym, and this name should also give us the possibility to choose a nice URL.
Right now its a mess, everything about mcf is taken 
BTW : all vdub support forum moderators have the right to participate in alpha testing first MCF files, muxers and parsers ... join us on irc.openprojects.net, #mcf by time  ...
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Visit the unofficial Virtualdub support forum on http://forums.virtualdub.org - help to reduce the big number of emails Avery Lee is getting every day !!
Support matroska as container and Gstreamer as the only truely open, x-platform multimedia platform .... |
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| Morsa |
| Posted: Oct 22 2002, 08:59 PM |
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Moderator of the Vdub support board
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An stupid example for a name???? |
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| Neo Neko |
| Posted: Oct 22 2002, 11:32 PM |
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VirtualdubMod Alpha tester
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Joined: 11-July 02
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| QUOTE (fccHandler @ Oct 21 2002, 11:39 PM) |
I've never understood why everyone is so against Microsoft. |
It is simple. Because Microsoft is so against everyone else. Interoperability is not Microsoft's concern. In their eyes it is everyone elses jobs to bend over backwards and do that work for them while they fight them all the time.
| QUOTE (fccHandler @ Oct 21 2002, 11:39 PM) | | I've used Microsoft products for 15+ years and they are the best. |
Best is an exaggeration. I might be coerced into conceeding to marginally adequate. There have always been much better OS out there than Microsoft's. I mean after all where do you think Microsoft gets all their new features from. They sure as hell don't come up with them.
| QUOTE (fccHandler @ Oct 21 2002, 11:39 PM) | | Sure, I've had my share of problems (if Windoze didn't crash every 5 minutes I might forget that it was running). |
That should be reason enough not to use it. It is not normal for an OS; especially a NOS to crash with any frequency. Unless you are in the Microsoft world where frequent crashes are a fact of life and used to market you new versions in the hope they will crash less only to be disappointed. Yes I have crashed the uncrashable XP. Many times. To date I think I might have crashed one of my older Linux distros once. I have never had BeOS, ONX, or FreeBSD crash on me though.
| QUOTE (fccHandler @ Oct 21 2002, 11:39 PM) | | Now that the specs are public, developers finally have the ability to write their own ASF software. I say let's go for it. |
Do they now? Are you sure? Is it really public domain for everyone to use? Or are the specs simply common knowledge now but still restricted to use? Pardone my pessimism. It just comes from almost 20 years of dealing with Microsoft.
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| fccHandler |
| Posted: Oct 23 2002, 04:23 AM |
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Administrator n00b
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Thanks Neo Neko, I was anticipating your response. In spite of the fact that we may not always agree (certainly not on these issues), I have the utmost admiration and respect for you and I'm glad you are a member of our forums. All of your posts are very detailed and well thought out. Keep up the good work!
Peace
-fccHandler
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May the FOURCC be with you... |
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